Gay Men

Gay male artists and those who share and enrich the culture of gay men

Get Your Heads Out Of Your Arses - you know who you are

randommoment randommoment 116 posts

So… You’re happy to submit work til the cows come home, but nothing else.

I dare say that if you can’t even be bothered entering a challenge, then you’re not looking through the galleries, forums or making an effort to comment work.

And if you’re not doing that, then there’s no good reason to continue taking submissions. Or, in fact, there’s no good reason to continue this group.

If you want this group to continue, then don’t comment here – go do things. Start a forum topic. Go here and enter the challenge. Have a skim through the gallery and comment 3 works you like. And comment something substantial. Not just “I like it”, but why you like it or why it makes you think. None of this stuff takes long.

And if you want to be really proactive, then use the ‘share’ button at the bottom of each image. Why? Because its bloody Christmas time and the fags of the world need presents. Want something, but don’t want to pay for it? Share it on your facebook saying how much you love it. Talk about an easy way for your friends to sort out the present issue…

umbra umbra 214 posts

you know i have deep respect for the host butchart which is why i remain and occasionally add work to the group….do i participate often no but frankly being a tinker of language defines me more than my sexuality and i patiently await the time when this group becomes more than primarily about dicks and ass -not that i don’t appreciate a nice one like everyone else but my personal artistic expression/interest largely concerns other things…sorry for being too broad? too interested in constantly expanding my perspective? etc. etc. etc.

so merry fucking xmas to you too..

Bruce Miller Bruce Miller 95 posts

It might generate more interest if features were posted. It’s been a long time

Dan Perez Dan Perez 2186 posts

Why bother when the group is dead, has been for a while and the only time something gets posted or updated by the host is when it’s to admonish people and alienate them?

Not trying to be rude, it’s just the way I view things and the way I feel about the group. It was, at one time, a fun, supportive group of queer artists. Now it’s pretty much ignored by the hosts and, like many groups, has become no more than a depository for art with no interaction.

Many of the artists in this group are on my watchlist and I comment on their work that way. I’ve even made a few of them Featured Artists on my FB page to promote them. So, I don’t appreciate being told off by a host who is inactive and doesn’t really know what he’s talking about.

Maybe you should try drawing people in again instead of showing up only when you want to bitch at them. I would love to see this group be what it once was when it first started.

randommoment randommoment 116 posts

Erich… the group is what you make it. If you want it to be more than cock and arse, then submit away – we’re happy to take what you can give us. Write forums. Submit journals. Maybe offer to organise something for writers? A group project. I invite you to be part of the solution.

Features? What features? Featured works change on a regular basis.

Dan… the challenges have been updated regularly. As a trial for 3 months there were at least 3 challenges on the go to either submit or vote and some of them even had prizes. There was the World Cup Challenge – created by me – with mixed results. As for everything else? Forums are open – its not only the responsibility of the hosts to generate ‘content’ for the group. You’re empowered to start a thread and if you do and its interesting, then us hosts will notice and write up a group news about it. As for your criticism of me? I’m far from inactive – and if you’d read the title of this message properly you’d understand that this message isn’t aimed at those who are actually active in the group. Perhaps you should have taken the time to go to the forum and write something interesting instead of admonishing me for making an effort to bring the group back to what it was when it first started.

I understand my message was blunt, but the touchy-feely, leading-from-behind process definitely wasn’t working.

butchart butchart 391 posts

it’s looking like a gay group to me… queens sniping at each other… ha…… to say we hosts have ignored the group is not true… i’m here everyday accepting and YES, rejecting work that is unsuitable… many attempts have been made to motivate members (and i’m not talking the third leg).. challanges have largley been ignored and friendly forums sit empty of comments….. as for features… they are done at least twice a month… although i’ve found myself asking why as none of the members seem to acknowledge they have been featured or congratulate others that have been…. so i will side with alex when he says TRY BEING PART OF THE SOLUTION for a change…….

richepics richepics 6 posts

OK I accept the slapped wrists – Do it again; I like it!!
I haven’t been very active recently, because of problems here. In all fairness I have tried to enter the challenges but if I have nothing that fits and no idea how to create anything I cannot enter.
I try to see other group members’ art work and, where I can make a comment, I will do.
I would be sorry to see this group fail as it is the only place that I am in contact with Gay Guys.
I will try to do better……………….please will you slap my wrists again, Sir? Joking, Alex, alright?

Dan Perez Dan Perez 2186 posts

i’m here everyday accepting and YES, rejecting work that is unsuitable… many attempts have been made to motivate members (and i’m not talking the third leg)<

You may be here every day behind the scenes, but honestly, I was under the impression you stopped be part of the group long ago because your presence is mainly behind the scenes. Alex has been in the front but, and I may just be reading his intent wrong, it’s almost always in a negative manner. Sorry Alex, I may be totally off base, but I read so much of what you say as sarcastic, admonishing and sometimes outright bitchy toward members.

Butch, you say “be part of the solution.” Fair enough. Speaking for myself, I had entered almost every challenge put out there for a while and finally stopped when I realized my entry is one of maybe five and that only one person seems to ever vote besides myself. I don’t start thread discussions but have tried to participate in a number of them that have just died after a couple of comments.

That is all very discouraging and has caused me to pretty much ignore the group, including drastically cutting down on art submissions.

So, I understand the frustration of the hosts. However, a message like this isn’t something that lends itself to being part of a solution. Again, speaking only for myself and the way I am….if you tell me I have to do something, it’s pretty much a guarantee that I I won’t do it. I image others may feel the same way.

A better approach may have been to reach out to people who are active or have been in recent months, those that seem to want an active group, and ask for their assistence. Ask them to go and start a disucussion and to participate in one anothers disussions just to get something going….then you, the hosts would need to lead by example, by participating also. Yes, it’s more work, but isn’t work part of moderating a group that you want to remain active?

There are probably many ways that a moderator can encourage people, using those that have an interest, instead of just posting a nasty, bitchy message every once in a while. That is ignored by those who don’t care anmd only further discourages and alienates those who want to participate but are feeling as frustrated as you.

As far as the thank yous for features….keep in mind that in some groups, members complain about the constant thank you messages that are posted and flood the forum. So, it can be tough to know if you should or not. Either set up a seperate place in the forums for people to post those or just accept the fact that people are thrilled and appreciate it even if they don’t publicly acknowledge you for the feature.

randommoment randommoment 116 posts

You seem to have a lot of ideas Dan, perhaps you’d like to come onboard as a host and impliment them?

Dan Perez Dan Perez 2186 posts

No, I don’t have the time or interest in being a host of any group. Just offering some suggestions on how to possibly approach people in a different way.

Jeff stroud Jeff stroud 345 posts

Guys, thanks for stirring things up here! Yes Alex it is a bit frustrating to host a group and challenges etc and not have people get involve… I am now a co-host for Candid Photography group, and what I notice is people wish to be recognized (their work)…
Plus I think something happen when the site (redbubble) changed formats a few months ago, it seemed we would get more messages about work on sites, mail, forum info… maybe is is just my watchlist changed and the gay mens work is just not showing up…. as often.
I have been featured a couple of time in the past month and I am grateful that… Dan has commented on my work even work that is not posted in this group… I am a gay man who takes photographs, my work is not gay, pre se, it is expressive and spiritual…

Alex, Butch, I will try to connect to this site more often, and seek to make it work… Thank you both for the work that you do!

Jeff

randommoment randommoment 116 posts

Thanks Jeff and richepics. I appreciate your input and the efforts you make to interact with the group.

And for you richepics, I can break out the paddle if you like…

TripZ TripZ 6 posts

I would like to entire challanges, but I don’t think you guys have writing challanges? Or have you?

randommoment randommoment 116 posts

Its a bit hard to do writing challenges on Redbubble. They don’t have any facility to do it – so entering and voting on them is difficult.

The only way to really do it is to organise something in the forums – which you’re welcome to organise yourself if you like. Its something we’ve been sorely lacking for a long time.

titus titus 74 posts

One of the writing groups I belong to had a good format for hosting writing challenges. The made a simple text pic to download and re-upload attached to your writing in the description. Everyone’s looked the same – consistent, and the emphasis was on getting everyone sharing, not winning or votes. Only problem, it was limited to the amount of words allowed in a description. Great for poetry but not so great for longer written works.

I confess I’ve been a little guilty of not entering more of my work if it is not obviously gay-themed because the vast majority of the work is. I know the rules are clear: “If you identify as a gay man then you’re free to submit any work you like. Any work produced by you will be of interest to this community.” and I’d like to push that idea a little further by submitting a broader range of work.

I have a feeling if the content were really more broadly representative of we are shooting or creating, there would be a lot more group interest. For example, I just recommended a friend to the group who shoots a lot of wildlife. He’s very much a gay man but his photography interests do not advertise this fact.

I’d like for the group hosts to comment on the above example. Do you really want the work in the group to be strongly gay-themed or are you more interested in a forum for gay men and gay friendly men to collaborate and interact by submitting any work they please? I would certainly respect and support either or both of these group goals.

My opinion: I’d like to see more of what our members are interested in and creating. I often end up looking at their portfolios instead of seeing their work in the group because there is, (perhaps unintentionally), an understanding that some of their work is not welcomed in the group and therefore not submitted.

I appreciate your commitment to this great group and you have my full attention.

ONE OTHER IDEA:
In our group, we often have concurrent challenges created by winners of the previous challenge. Members really seem to enjoy creating them and participation has increased dramatically. To date, we have not had to reject any ideas, they’ve all been interesting and the group has benefitted because of it.

Ray2009 Ray2009 4 posts

Kool

randommoment randommoment 116 posts

2 per day? If we didn’t we’d have 50 photos a day to go through. The idea was to transition to not needing to moderate submissions once we saw how the ‘invite only’ status helped the situation with submissions. I’ll be discussing with the other hosts the possibility of no longer moderating submissions and then you guys can go hell for leather.

Having said that – we’ve never restricted work to just men, cock, etc. The rules are pretty clear that gay men can submit anything and the idea that there being a 2 per day limit prevents you from submitting anything is rubbish. Nobody is uploading huge numbers of images to redbubble every day. And if you do, you pick your 2 best and submit them. Easy. Requires little to know thought.

The fact remains that most people won’t go back more than a few pages in the gallery. If I submitted my entire library of images to this group in one day, then I’d dominate those first few key pages. And then what if others do the same? Very quickly we’ve added hundreds of pages to the gallery in a short period of time giving most people no chance to see the content. Oddly enough… its about quality and not quantity.

But if the members here really believe that dumping content into the group is the way to get people active, then I am happy to explore that.

randommoment randommoment 116 posts

Bugger it. I’ve changed the rules. Submit away.

We’ll see how things go after a month or two…

Ray2009 Ray2009 4 posts

Kool

randommoment randommoment 116 posts

Hi Ray,

Not pissed off. Just disappoined.

I really don’t know what your rant is about. This group isn’t meant to function as a reflection of RB. That is, its not here to provide any functionality that enhances sales. Its like any other ‘gay place’ – its a haven away from there hetero norm.

As for what I want? Its not about what I want. I am not running a company, nor do I wish to. I don’t wish to run the group like one either. The philosophy of the hosts is to allow the group to be what the members want it to be with intervention only taking place to encourage activity.

There is nothing stopping people from adding any of that content that you have mentioned – in fact if you look through the galleries you will find it there. Additionally to this – how do you propose that we facilitate the direct and specific motivation to turn this into a magazine-style lifestyle group for gays? Redbubble is for art and photography. This may include photojournalism and holiday snaps could arguably have some validity as such, but at the end of the day thats what other sites are for.

And so… we come back to the original purpose of the group. The Haven. Where posting to the forum can and should be about spreading the word about your own shows, about the equipment you use or a if you’re seeking a muse. Commenting usually gives the producer of the work validation – especially important if the work explores interesting or challenging themes and even more so when doing it in a hetero-normative space. And this group assists in that by providing an easy way for people to travel through our community’s gallery and comment on anything that attracts their attention.

I appreciate your comments to this thread, but I believe they reflect what you want from the group as an individual and not what we want as hosts. I encourage you to participate in the group in anyway you feel will send it in the direction you desire and we will facilitate it.

Ray2009 Ray2009 4 posts

Kool.