Amandalynn Jones

I don’t think it’s too harsh at all. It seems like the overall quality has taken a bit of a slide in the time since I have been here. Redbubble is supposed to be an art marketplace, but it seems like some people don’t realize that. Photobucket, Flickr and the like are places to show off the pets and family, and to get prints you post in your cube at work. RB is a place for ART.

Thank you Flickerlight. I certainly didn’t mean to imply that the poor quality photos are everywhere, certainly the wonderful art on this site far outweighs the stuff that is not – for sure. I think that artists and work that has come together here at RedBubble is phenomenal beyond any other art communities I’m apart of.

I just worry, because I love this site so much, as I’ve looked around recently and come across several newer RedBubble galleries that RedBubble may be the next victim in the invasion of “photobucketers” that use art sites as family photo albums instead of what they’re really for.

How would you suggest we encourage the idea that RedBubble’s the place for your best stuff? Our thinking to date has been to keep RedBubble open, trusting and supportive (which is why we don’t vet content prior to publication). We would rather encourage and inspire people to improve.

We’re open to ideas …

An upload limit is something that we’ve bounced around a few times – would something like this help to reinforce the ‘RedBubble is for your best stuff’ mindset?

Oh lol I thought this was my ‘Is it just me’ journal entry …

I’ll back away slowly :)

I would like a number that is qualitative, a little like Googles page rank. A ten means you are really hot, and a 1 really not. This would be visible and could be used as a way of filtering works you see.

The hotness is calculated by looking at the average ranking of your public works.

Then across RB the top 10 pecent get a 10 the next 10 percent a 9 and so on. Or the maths might have to use standard deviation or some such.

This ranking could then be used in a number of ways.
As a filter, to filter out the less desirable
As a way to encourage people to improve their rank by removing the least desirable works, ie lots of guides on what to do to make a good portfolio

• Possibly tie this to upload limits

Oh and SeretiyOne I quite agree with your sentiments

Ranking is a not always the best way to go…art can be very subjective.

But I agree that I’ve seen quite a lot of ‘vacation’ or family snaps that probably aren’t things that should be visible to buyers (maybe a lot of them aren’t even listed as “for sale”.

I’m not sure how you’d stop people from uploading things like that unless you start reviewing all uploads. That would be difficult given the wide range of art styles on this site.

I’d confess to having a couple that are more snapshots than art (one particular triptych of my grandchildren) but they also aren’t offered for sale.

Maybe have a set of galleries for all art that’s for sale and a separate set for non-sale works?

I really dont like the ranking idea,,, because it will just encourage people to get their mates on board and view their work,,, which I am sure happens now,, but a ranking system seems a little harsh, especially when you first arrive on Redbubble. And I am a little disturbed by the term ‘less desirable,,’ the image may not be desirable to you, but to someone else it may be a masterpiece,,, art in whatever form is subjective,,,, if we go down a road of a ranking system,,, it will become a popularity contest for sure.

I agree, though to be honest, I think it already is a popularity contest to some extent (watchlists and so on mean you tend to comment a little more on those on your watchlist and often miss some of the other great stuff), but it could be really skewed if we und up with a viewer-based ranking system.

I read this post earlier.

My first reaction was to respond with a comment that art is a very subjective concept.

I clicked to view your art Serenityone and I was most surprised to see images that could be construed as family snapshots on your current first page.

Please do not construe my comment as criticism because it is not. I did love your images but you must be able to understand why anyone would construe those images as snapshots even though they are excellent snapshots especially when viewing them with an untrained eye.

Also, as a non photographer, I often see far too many images on this site that have been tweeked far too much that they are beyond recognition. It does make me wonder and dearly love to see the original image to compare the before and after.

I am most interested to see the comments by Peter above. It seems to confirm that perhaps there has been too much uploading of images.

I would agree with uploading limits but it won’t control the so called quality because art remains in the eye of the beholder.

And, if sales are important to this site in terms of keeping it financed and also in terms of commission for the artists, then snapshots of cats and dogs and sunsets and seascapes will sell.

I am more likely to purchase a card with an endearing image of a cat because I have a lot of cat lovers in my group of family and friends and they will treasure a greeting card with images of an endearing cat.

Okay. Said too much.

Peter: I wish that I had a total solution, because honestly, I myself did get the very clear impression that redbubble is a place for people to showcase the best when I signed up so it’s difficult for me to figure out how others may not have gotten the same message. However, when submissions aren’t monitored it’s always going to be left up to the best judgement of the people who are uploading… and sometimes people really lack that judgment. I honestly don’t believe that RedBubble should monitor submissions either though, that leaves the choice up to the best judgment of the people doing the monitoring, and is often unfair, as we all are pleased by different aesthetics… one person’s “junk” is another person’s “masterpiece”. On the other hand, there are images that you can just look at and know that the person who submitted it put zero effort into making it artistic and it’s just something that’s there to take up space… so there has to be some way to compromise.

Perhaps something like split galleries under the “art” tab on people’s profiles… one that would be the ‘main gallery’ and would be just like the galleries are now, for finished/more artistically inclined pieces and art that’s for sale. And then one for sketches, studies, snapshots, etc. that don’t really ‘belong’ in a gallery, but people would like to have up anyway. Perhaps that gallery would have the upload limit(so that people couldn’t just use it as a file dump like photobucket)... and it wouldn’t allow someone to submit images that are in that gallery into groups(which is where I’ve come across a lot of the non-art I’ve seen recently)... or maybe they could, if the group had a setting that allowed them to(depending on what the group is used for I could see setting different “levels” for submissions).
That way, if someone clicks on a gallery(or group), they can choose to see the non-art if they want to, but don’t have to sort through it otherwise.
I realize that’s a lot of work, site wise, and it might not all even be possible, but that would be my suggestion.

Mark: While I like your idea a lot in theory, I could see it running into problems with people who are here to just boost their egos and I agree with Gracey that it could start to cater to a popularity contest. Certainly it has the potential to be a great tool though, were it ever implemented here… I would hope though, that if it were, there’d be a way to opt out of the filter for people who don’t want to use it.

Michelle: I well see your point. However, I think when considering art, it’s important to acknowledge artists intent as well as the subjectivity. To me, there’s a clear difference between taking a picture of something because it’s there, and making an effort to capture what’s taking place specifically for the purpose of art.
As I indicated in my original journal entry, I’m completely aware that my own gallery isn’t filled with first class photos, there is some stuff that borders toward being more like snapshots than classic portraits there… however, I rarely pick up my camera without an artistic intent(as opposed for just using it to capture a random event for the sake of remembering it – of course I do that too, but you won’t find any pictures from birthday parties or family get-togethers in my gallery either), and every time I upload something that could lean toward the lower end of the technical photography scale I make the effort to censor myself and consider it more than once before finally putting it up… and I make an effort to do that because that’s what I expect from others as well.

As far as content goes, that is of course subjective, but if I’m going to buy a print of, say, a waterlily(only because I don’t have pictures of a cat, and don’t want to use someone else’s work as an example) because I have waterlily loving friends that I want to send it to, I(and frankly most others) would choose a photo that looks like this: over one that looks like this: (hopefully those links work?) because even though the first one isn’t the best photo ever taken of a waterlily, and is probably more toward the “snapshot” end than the “masterpiece” side quality wise, it was at least intended to be a nice looking photo the represented a the lily – as opposed to a general capture of a lily just because it was there(as in the second link).

I think we have already proved that a ranking system would not work (look at the controversy of the ‘what’s hot’ page). Ranking = popularity. Not at all what you’d be trying to achieve.

Restricting uploads doesn’t address the issue of quality either. All it means is that there will be less artwork in general on RB. That will mean less ‘snap shots’ but also less of other work too.

The only way to truly influence the quality of work is through education. This can show up in many different forms but would require a conducive environment for that to happen.

Just my thougths…

Interesting that I should find this topic tonight, as it’s been on my mind for a while now.

I’ve never used any photo sharing sites before; RB was my intro to the world of showing off my work online. It was very clear to me at the outset though, that RB was for artistic work, not just snaps that you’d like your friends to see (I set up a private personal page for that a long time ago). It puzzles and saddens me therefore, when I see mundane family snaps posted here.

I like Gracey’s idea of splitting the galleries, so it’s clear (or should be…) what’s going to go where. At the same time, I understand that people buy things for different reasons, and something intended as serious art by one person, may be seen as less appealing than a cheerful snap by someone else.

Then I take a step back, and think “does it really matter?” The answer to that being, “Yes, it does”, if I’m looking to find inspiring work, and end up trawling through one family album after another (OK, that’s a slight exaggeration). Just a few minutes ago though, I looked at one portfolio, where the images were overprinted with the date!

I fear that this is ultimately an issue that will remain unresolved, and the status quo will be maintained, if only because the RB team would not have the time to vet and reject submissions. Besides, I look at plenty of work that I do not like, or which just puzzles me (here and elsewhere), but which nonetheless has validity as art; to attempt to block any of that would be naive and unreasonable.

I hesitate to add the following, but here goes: RB is a fine supportive community, and the comment system is excellent. However, I am repeatedly amazed at the gushing comments that are posted sometimes, when there is nothing (IMHO) particular to commend the work. There is plenty of work here that makes me gasp in admiration – from both seasoned professionals and relative beginners – but when I see fairly unremarkable images given glowing comments, it does seem to devalue the currency somewhat. Perhaps therein lies the key to the main issue: if there is a very wide range of work that can be perceived as “quality”, then it becomes even less likely that you can “filter out” the happy snaps. For example, you could say “no baby photos”, but then look at the work of Anne Geddes, and tell me that it’s not artistic.