RedBubble

can toy art ever be fine art?

Wonderful Martin.

I would however, change the last item to read “Loves the feel of plasticine”!!

Original truth!

:))

Bravo, RB !!! Continue to forge ahead and walk in Faith, especially while doors continue to open !!

certainly is a new world of art out there being displayed far more than ever

How about:
Old Art:
Inspired by our world
New Art:
Inspired by our world and the next

haha

“People’s walls/backs” made me think spray cans and tattoo needles. It’s not like we’re all making millions, but I like the way it’s going.

Excellent! I would also amend the last line to read “loves the smell of plasticene”...:-)

Just love it! This is very much what happened to the music industry, which essentially gave the power of music back to the people and the musicians, and sliced off the old corporate appendages. Music was reclaimed as a culture, and i see Art doing the same. Hoorah!

Old art excludes…new art invites
Old art was secretive…new art is revealing

The “New art” seems dangerously close to the definition of kitsch.

fully agree with all that you have stated …............ or does that make me a mindless moron. lol

I certainly agree and thanks for posting this! What a wonderful time, to be in a community where art is engaging, supported … and involved!

hmmm interesting – but you put this in the context of the here and now – art has been getting more and more accessible for centuries now and probably will do so in future.

Celebrates elitism/breaks down barriers

Oh boy, plasticine!!!! Where can I get some

So true :)

Well said. Art is the masses.

art is finally unleashed!
everyone and anyone can create.
the worldwideweb knows no boundaries.
creativity and the net, what a wonderful marriage.

Well said :) I thinks its about time someone opened up to let the lesser known people in and show thier talents from all over the globe and all the wonderful cultures and differences we all have so we can all learn from each other.
Well done RB :)
We can all make a big difference :) Go for it

sigh

very good & true distinctions ~ and interesting as the change in culture ~ more open and “everyday way” of engaging with each other ~ and art is another expression of this ~ thanks for this pov ~ food for my day xx

Looking down that list, I think I want what I do to be old art.

Isn’t evolution grand!

I thouroughly agree with all of the above and would also put forward that ‘Redbubble” is the little boy who exposed the tailors of the emperor’s new clothes as being frauds.

Yeeehaaa to the artists of everyday and everyway

Perfect timing. OPening my first exhibition, tomorrow night and hoping to engage the visitors. So far it has been good to see them reacting to familiar places and shared memories!!
Thanks for the list. It helps to clarify!

When does new art become old art? And who defines ‘art’? Will they be doing so from the same viewpoint that defined ‘old art’? Will new art become something other than art?

P.S.. I shan’t mind a bit of praise!!!

Very eloquently put, Martin, and very discerning. You have put into words what many people either coudln’t because they didn’t have the vocabulary to do so, or they didn’t realize what was happing, they just knew something was!

However, in opposition to some, I wiould prefer you had used something other than Plasticene in the last line – LOL I always found the smell of it was more like a mild stench, from the very first time I was introduced to it back in 1961!

I particularly love number 3 and can relate to it here on the bubble and in life. change is good, but there are still many who like the old ways.

Kate, It is interesting as when I am honest I also slightly long for the glory of being on the pedestal of old art. But I am concerned that if I can only attain this by others not being able to then it is too high a price to pay.

Nice one Paul :)))))))))))))

That’s exactly right, well thought out

I think aspiring to educate is a quality we should hang on to …

Wonderful and interesting observations Pilgrim. Well done!
For those of you who may have no idea as to what plasticine is, I am including a brief explanation: It is a trademark name for an oil-based modeling material . It is a non-drying modeling clay and cannot be fired in a kiln like regular clay.
Today, it’s used a great deal by sculptors, animators etc.. It always stays pliable and workable and unlike clay, doesn’t stick to your fingers. It’s very clean to work with. Plasticine can be shaped and worked with modeling tools for shaping. What I really like about it is that It can be used on a pre-formed armature. I should also mentioned that today , plasticine comes in different colors. Great when you need to differenciate a certain part or section of your work. If my memory serves me right, I think plasticine was invented about 1897.

Take the future…or take a beating….

Personally… I prefer playdoh ;-)

It’s is a new world and everything you say makes perfect sense, but it will take time…people by and large still want to touch and feel before they buy….most of my friends want to come to my studio to see the art first, and still can’t seem to get their heads around buying on line, as much as they admire the works they see…I do my part to convince them, but I think RB and other art sites have to do their part to convince the world that buying art on line is the future…

I think this might be what Pilgrim was referring to in the last line …

Point number 5 really really really appeals to me.

may life unfold and the people speak in colour!
is it Bubbleism?

Yes we should shout out loud, “don,t visit the galleries, buy a picture” great for walls ceillings, and the back of doors, T-shirts or what ever floats your boat!!
Erm!!!! Plasticene?You smokin, something?

Dunno about anyone else, but my art wouldnt support the feeding bill of a canary by way of rb sales….....
The logic makes sense, the mathematics do not support it mate

I tend to find it a worry when anything is split into “old” and “new”, when there’s an attempt to divide and deprecate the old. The “new” I see in the above appears to have existed as long as I can remember,

What a load of old tosh and nonsense. Art is Art…as simple as that. The rest of it is what others try and enforce upon it. Art can be everything on both sides of that at the same time, and none of it at all. There seems to be an ongoing fascination at RB about enforcing RB’s perception on art, instead of just celebrating it in all its many varied guises.

You know what this writing did for me!? It made me realize “Holy Cow – I’m an ARTIST!”. I’m not near as GOOD as some on here and around the world, but I am STILL an ARTIST! That’s a cool feeling! And, people are paying for my “work”! Thanks for writing this! I have had to quit school and a career to take care of my sick son! (though I don’t regret it)....Sometimes, I wonder – besides a mom and a wife, what am I as a person … I found photography by accident, and decided to do it to bring in income for my family… But, it’s so much more than that – and I understand now… And, thank you RedBubble – I’m an ARTIST!

‘art’ is such an ugly and alienating word.

My favorite is: Celebrates a shared humanity. RB brings together people from around the world to share artwork we would otherwise never view and appreciate.

for me it is art evokes thought…and lets feelings be free in creating.. rb for me …a part of my heART always.

Well I agree totally ART is changing and with all this new technology..peeps can download our digital ART now woot! evolution..;} hugglez

My preferred reality would be a blend of some of the left column with some of the right.. plus some additions.

I think art and creativity should aspire to educate. It should always aspire to do that. If that is changing by more people doing it as well, that’s great. Education through creating art or observing art is still education and no bad thing.

I dont see anything wrong with praise and I dont think ‘old’ art or artists ever went out to create just to seek praise. In many ways people use sites like Flickr [massaging its Explore feature] purely to seek praise.

Art in galleries, mansions and all of the places in the left column is still good. You should add what’s on the left to what’s on the right.

Great art also celebrates a shared humanity and whilst not all art is done by geniuses or people with a superior creativity, when that does occur it should be lauded. It deserves to be.

Digital software and equipment have revolutionised how ‘art’ is created, and have made that process available to a lot more people. The web has allowed those people to seek an audience and share their work more widely and from the privacy of their own home.

..and I totally agree with Janis. I put up a show here in Tokyo the other night and have taken orders and sold some pieces. I have had work on RedBubble [a lot or the same work] for some time. No sales as yet.

Red Bubble and other sites like it are just like the old places to hang art, just virtual. You still need to get to the top of the pile somehow [‘Featured Art, Featured Artist etc etc] and get your work noticed.

Plus, going to college, learning a trade or a craft, spending years to hone and perfect that art…. these are activities that should still be encouraged. Technology and the internet have spawned as many cons as the pros and cons you have listed above as reasons to be cheerful about ‘new art’. There are many talented people who have had their work and creativity illuminated by the web. There are also many, many people who have a blog and think they are suddenyl Woodward and Bernstein and who have a digicam and some software and think they are Ansel Adams.

It sort of reminds me of the British Goverment’s policy of helping everyone get to University and get a degree. 1. There are now thousands more kids aged 22 who are mired in debt and, most importantly, 2. If everyone has a degree, what value does it have?

It certainly is a new world, broadening our eyes and and reaching the international
masses with a wider exposure for many artist and definitely unprecedented in many forms and originality of creativity. The 21st Century certainly heralds a new era for all artisans alike. Forge on RB. I like when people think outside the box and don’t feel “threatened” by old or new.

You’ve raised a memory from early childhood: the hours that I used to spend creating sculptures in plasticine and lining them up along the top edge of the opened toybox lid (it was a big old blue chest). My own private gallery.

as for a response to your premis, I was about to say can we not sit in both camps simultaneously? then I read Banal Heed’s comments. He’s right. And so are you.

And if i break down my time into bits, I reckon I spend as much of it inside a physical Art Gallery with walls (and sometimes windows) as I do in the RB (and other) cyber gallery. Both valuable, necessary and equally stimulating. But I spend a damn site more time actually making art :-). It was Grace Cossington-Smith who said, not long b4 she died, that an artist should not need to go to exhibitions. They should be making art. It’s a valid point but not one I agree with. I merely offer it here as another opinion.

Totally, art is for everyone, we should all be able to afford to create , own and share art, it’s a way of sharing who we are with the world and a way of appreciating and connecting with other ppl, it is sad when only the rich can afford to create or buy art, this gives ppl from all walks of life an opportunity to share that they may never have had in the past and in my opinion is revolutionising the art world, giving every one the chance to explore the joy of creating.

I have this continual argument with a fellow worker who thinks that oils, acrylics and the like will fall into a dark abyss and be replaced with computer painting, “after all we can just print them out on canvases and as many as we like” he says… He never responds to “which one is the original?” Which of course there is no answer for.

Places like Red Bubble (and others like them) will supplement the gallery and bring the art experience into the average homeowner realm. But to expect galleries to vanish or have on-line sites be “the thing” it just won’t happen. While I have many wonderful pieces up here on Red Bubble the my work only makes an impact when you can stand in front of a canvas, feel the texture of the paint that has built up over the course of time. That experience will never happen in computer art nor will it happen on RB.

I guess I would take issue with some items on the list… old art supporting industry, critics and curators… what would you say to the artists and families who lived because of there art?

We would not be artists if it were not for old art… if it were not for those that tried new things that were considered extreme in there day…

Haha – not so sure about this Martin – seems to me a lot of what we all love on RB is other’s praise for example. I take your point about the elitism of much traditional art and the greater tendency to inclusiveness in newer mediums though. But interestingly enough so many new movements in traditional art started out as attempts to portray and celebrate the everyday or the underside of the everyday (eg Lautrec) or to completely challenge what we always took for granted as being “real” (cubism, surrealism, dada) but then all became part of the cultural elite. Will ours suffer the same fate? And maybe there is a degree of inevitability about art as being forever on the fringe in a culture as bland and mediocre as Western culture is. The greatest cultures have always had art and some system of spirituality at their heart. Ours has neither, just the sad aspiration for personal wealth and 15 minutes of fame. What hope for art in a culture that wants nothing more than to be “comfortably numb”.

Well, there is still a place for the old art.
I just returned from italy where I visited Ufficci gallery in Florence, and if I wouldn’t reserve tikckets in advance, it would be impossible to enter, because the queue was endless.
I must say it was very interesting experience.
It is really something else to stand in front The birth of venus by Botticelli.
It is huge.
The new art is a direct outcome of the internet creating global communities based on mutual interest, redbubble is fine example of such a community.
The internet makes art very accessible to artists and viewers as well and it helps the artists to develop and improve.
You can see the article of Michael Globalization of art – the positive side he did a good job explaining the essence of redbubble.

Your ‘old’ and ‘new’ didn’t inspire or fascinate me, it’s nothing that hasn’t been said, many a time before in these posts and I agree with Banal Heed, there’s an odd fascination at Redbubble about enforcing a certain perception of art. Your definition of old is pretty condescending and your definition of new isn’t really new. I guess if you wanted to fire up the troops you succeeded but you’re kind flogging the horse a little bit at the same time

wow i so agree! bring on the plasticine i love it —-art should be a living breathing community —-just like redbubble

So True! You have just put into words the way so many of us feel! Thanks.

nice one

I would add the commentary that the “old” art is obscure and hard to find, who would ever get the chance to see something in the Louvre or even the Knoxville Museum of Art? You pretty much have to be local… and some group of ultra elite get to decide what is art… I’d much rather make that distinction myself… That is why the bubble is such an awesome place :) Keep up the awesome work!

I want to know, is the mass produced art from China still Art. They paint five thousand identical copies of the same piece. Which you can buy for $89…Would by accident or by a stroke of inspiration by one painter make one copy different and it looks like a masterpiece…is this art ?

The old RB dictatorship is back in motion again with some pompous crap about what art should be….....art is everything not just what the RB propaganda machine keeps on regurgitating on a regular basis.

Thanks for the infomercial…..and now a word from our sponsors….

I would like to think art is a constantly evolving hybrid of both new and old and agree with Dave Pearson that “new” art has always been around it is just more accessible to the masses given the internet and technology.

Interesting comparison of old and new art. I believe everything evolves into the that particular moment and is considered new! That “old” art was once the result of the evolution of the creative mind finding new ways to express itself. I see so many “new” expressions of the wonderful creative minds here on RB. I will look at someone’s new work and say to myself, “Wow, I wish I thought of that!” “I wish I took that picture” “Wow, how did they do that?” I love photography, I love the feeling I get when I am inspired, and…Oh yes!.....I love being complimented on my work. Don’t we all.
Thanks Red Bubble, for having a site that promotes the evolution of Art

The wonder of art today is that it shows we are all creative…..not like in the past when there were just the masters…and even then they were often commissioned to do work they were not happy with….but here….we are all showing our various creative urges and that’s always a good thing to share our creativity and let it flow out to each other in a wonderful bond of friendship and mutual respect. Thank you RB for supporting digital art…..or else I would have nothing to do!!!! Cheers!!!!

Seeks our involvement…....ah yes…..so here’s your chance :o) How about this as a logo!!!!!!!

Great comparissons. It is very true. How about Old Art- Only some have artistic talent New Art- Everyone is artisticaly talented.

How true.

Nice one!! Yeah accessible art by our modern day masters!

Thanks for the writing and some interesting points to ponder… but surely the point is, whether or not it is “Old Art” or “New Art” at the end of the day, it is all the same thing… “art”. When Vincent Van Gough was busy painting like a one eared mad man all those years ago, he wasn’t doing it with the thought of it hanging in some stuffy art gallery in years to come. Perhaps as an artist who hardly made any sales during his life time, he is a good example of an “old” artist who was just doing what he loved and was gifted to do… as we do today. Just because our “new” art can appear on Mr Avererages living room wall or on the back Mrs Everdays T-shirt, does not mean there is any difference to what any artist from anywhere in the world is doing now compared to yesteryear.

I am simply using that which is available to describe that which is experienced. – Julian Opie

An artist of today, who has work hanging inside the National Portrait Gallery (one of those old stuffy galleries) uses computer software to reduce photographs (or short films) into figurative reproductions. In his portraiture, the human face is characterised by black outlines with flat areas of colour, and minimalised detail, to the extent that an eye can become just the black circle of the pupil.

Now, I imagine Julian Opies work sells for a considerably larger amount than anyone will ever receive from selling their work here on Redbubble, but really it is no different to what a lot of people are producing right here… perhaps Julian had a lucky break and got there first, but I guess if Julian can do it and Damian Hirst can put a shark in formaldehyde in a gallery, then maybe, just maybe a lucky break for all of us could just be around the corner.

Art is just simply art… if someone else puts a label to it and sticks it in a gallery then so be it… I’m just doing what Vincent was doing 200 years ago… art for the love of it.

I WOULD BE HARD PRESSED TO ADD ANYTHING NEW TO WHAT EVERYONE ELSE SAID. I THINK IT IS WONDERFUL THAT RED BUBBLE HAS OPENED A WAY FOR ANYONE WHO WANTS TO SHARE THEIR TALENTS. WE ARE A DIVERSE PEOPLE WITH AS MANY IDEAS AND WAYS TO EXPRESS OURSELVES. THANK YOU RED BUBBLE FOR OPENING A WAY TO SHARE WITH THE WORLD. SANDY

I too wonder where this will lead. Some think that the internet art boom was over several years ago. In some ways we seem to be becoming a retro underground. Undergrounds never really die, they just adapt as little as they can, and still stay a bit edgy, and relocate. It will be interesting to see if this way of showing art becomes a starbucks, or another corner cafe. Both have their appeal. Both have their place.

RB is a great place to hear comments/criticisms/critiques from ARTISTS and art lovers all over the world. The opinions are as diverse as the artists themselves, which is as it should be, for we, as human beings, are each created individually and not as ‘carbon copies’ of each other.

I have really appreciated reading the diversity, depth and daring of the responses. They have opened up my own mind more to the reality of what ‘art’ truly has been, is becoming and will, perhaps one day, become. I admire and appreciate the artists of the ‘old age’ – they worked with far less (current) technology that we take for granted and spent many years perfecting their craft before getting recognized, often having to feed large families on their income, whatever it was. They are to be applauded for the legacy they have left us to build on.

The ‘new art’ is being formulated every time someone recognizes that he/she is, indeed, an ‘artist’ (yeah!), not simply by putting pen/brush/mouse button to paper, canvas or computer screen, but when that individual truly sees what he/she is doing as something that expresses the inner self in a way that reveals the beauty of that person’s soul.

Thank you, again, Martin, for allowing us (‘Artists all!’) to have a place for not only showing (- and even one day, selling? :) ) our work, but for sharing our ideas and ideals with the ‘art’ community globally. I’m quite thrilled at being able to choose as ‘my favourites’, or comment on, work by artists in places like Poland, Israel, Australia, the U.K., U.S.A. and countless others, and to have people from those places, and others, acknowledge their admiration of my work. I feel that I am, indeed, truly in an ‘art gallery’ already! (Now, I just have to work on ‘feeding that canary!’ :) )

Thanks again, Martin, and all the RB staff, and ‘RBubblers’ for being there for us – artists all! memac (aka ‘Sunny Days Originals’)

Many people have noted it already, and better then I, but honestly, New and old art???

A. Who chooses which is which?
B. Find me a redbubble artist that would turn down having a work in the national gallery given the chance?
C. Raphael’s cherubs from the Sistine Madonna have pretty much beaten everyone to being printed on anything that stands still long enough, to mention but one “old” artwork. Its in my Grandma’s Kitchen. I find it quite engaging.
D. only BAD art, not OLD art applies to most of the statements.
E. and just where to you put someone like Banksy in all this?

P.S. I do like redbubble, but I live in the real world, and go look at real paintings in my spare time.

well said..i totally agree

Keep up the good work RB. We are all born creative, we just use that creativity in different ways. No matter what , Art is Art, thank God, not just for the elite anymore.
Equality for all, no matter what race, what background, rich or poor alike. In saying that though, i doubt if any of my Art would end up on the walls in Buckingham Palace. lolol
Art for all , thats me. x

Did someone say playdoh??? love the smell of that stuff, takes me right back to childhood LOL…....oops sorry sidetracked for a moment. I’m all for the new art too, I agree RB is a fantastic place to be

PS Who determines what real paintings are and who determines whats not real paintings, come to that any form of Art ??? Keep the money coming in aye, all these ” so called ” experts.

wonderful thoughts. I think there is a freedom in engaging and sharing our work. And with freedom comes power. Who knows where it will lead. If nothing else this site inspires me to keep creating. And that is a lot.

Each new moment is exciting. People will travel less now. But they shall venture to lands afar through RB. Lets embrace all forms of art and share its love and message…
Chuck

very true…

Time for a new world with new art,I like it.

Very well said…The times they are achangin’

Now I’m shure why I feel fine on RB…:-))

great views of both worlds…......but a question? when viewing the main page of features…......has anyone noticed…that a certian (if not more) individual has been on at least twice this week, and several times in the last couple months? it gets a bit frustrating to see the ‘same’ thing…..no matter how nice the work….....? DIFFERENCES are wonderful…UNIQUENESS a challange…give us something of everything…of everyONE! and praise it alllll! :o)

to be honest, i prefer to go to art galleries to look at art… sounds like this is an over generalised statement to make the masses feel good about themselves.

I enjoyed your version of the differences here, but would personally change one of them – under Old Art, I’d change the sentence “Lauds a superior creativity” to say “Lauds _elitists’ perceptions of superior creativity”.

I feel there is room in the world for many way to love art. Be in prints on the kitchen wall. or original paintings in your mansion. Or for that matter original art on the kitchen all and prints in your mansion. It’s all good as long as it’s good, and each of us decides what we like, and if we like it enough we buy it.
But there is even more need now for the critic, and reviewers. with so much art available it would take many lifetimes to look at it all, we actually need people to find and show us things they thought were great. This is why redbubble works so well, because not only are we artists, we are also critics and reviewers.

I haven’t changed and don’t intend to do so. I still hang all paintings on the wall and some of the best are finger paintings done by children. I do agree with Samuel Durkin’s statements.

Forge on, enjoy, feel, art is forever.

But then RB is also a gallery of sorts that educates….... I learn heaps from what I see here. However, I do love visiting galleries and seeing the great masters and the frontier breakers in art. It is really important though, for the rest of the creative masses to have an outlet where they can display their work without rejection. This in itself inspires further creativity and encourages artists towards personal improvement. The more one sees and the more one produces, the more one is able to become self-critical and become open to critique, therefore the greater one’s chance of improvement. So hooray for the new wave of galleries such as RB! In my view there is room for both old art and new art – it’s up to individuals how they perceive what they see.

I def agree! The art world is always evolving and would we have it any other way? We can still appreciate history :-)

Love it, love it, love it. Thank you for this one !

There is room for both but ‘old art’ is starting to equate value with money. Tupman is right about Van Gogh and that ‘art’ is done for it’s own sake. Art has always educated and now people are starting to be ‘educated’ enough to know that they don’t have to go to galleries or agree with critics to have work they like in thier homes, which is good for all of us.

YEP!

I think that Jack vettriano would love your ideas on art.

Oh Yeah, Baby.

Agree with your comments but would love a return of the day when art does’t have to match the sofa …......

Pass on by, pick a flower before you walk, see it, smell, it, paint its beauty in your mind before it wilters and fades away.
Don’t look back, just remember where you came from, so if you were ever to get lost, then you can find your way back for me to give you directions again.

Old art says to new art :)

This is just more BS elitist crap. HOW ABOUT “ALL ART” instead of new VS old?? The dichotomy you’ve set up again points to superiority of one over the other. You are committing the same sin you claim to be surpassing. Try to see art not judge it. Why can’t gallery walls AND kitchen walls be worthwhile? Old art does not necessarily condescend to the every day and new art is not necessarily “the every day” Why can’t new art explore the sublime? why can’t new are be grandiose? why do we insist on dividing things into factions and putting one side down?

Think before you speak, think before you make.

Art will live forever because it is an evolving medium. It is a medium that is alive because it is created by people who are inspired by something they (we) see or hear and feel the need to communicate our interpretations so others can share the beauty and/or the pain. I have lived on creativity my whole life and will continue the path of icreativity as long as I live. I think we all feel that way if we allow ourselves to do so. Thank you for continuing the path of inspiration. I believe the great artists of ’’old art’’ share the inspiration and in a way, they are still alive through their art.

honestly sometimes i dont know what these vague topics are about and reading strange replys that make no sense add to the confusion…does somebody at RB have too much time on their hands ? less talky and more arty please

The art of “Itdoesnt matter
Does it matter
who cares
(it doesn’t matter anyway)
—-—-

I absolutely agree!!! It might take time for the rest of the world to catch up, but RB is definitely paving the way: Create art for the masses and the WWW will get it out there.

And bathrooms, if you do anything aquatic at all you will be found in bathroom across the world and love it.

Hi Martin, our resident RB preacher. ;)

In your opinion piece here, I’m surprised you said “we”. A social commentator writing for a publication may have said: “These are my observations.”

I’ll leave you with this word to ponder: psychology

Cheers,
Darren.

Sad but true, both old and new,to bring home the bread ,you got to be dead.
One starving artist.LOL

I like the taste of plasticine.

You are so right, And I for one am glad that this is a place of change. I feel very creative and safe here. Thank you for all you do for us.

I think the thing that appealed to me most about the Bauhaus was the idea that art was everyday objects.. that just because something is functional that doesn’t mean it can’t be beautiful. For me the new art is toys, it’s tshirts and cd covers and posters, it’s that random piece of stencil graffiti that reminds you that a city is full of people with whimsical ideas. It’s postcards stickytaped on the wall and desktop backgrounds. We can chose to surround ourselves with wonderful, inspirational work and it doesn’t have to cost anything. You don’t even need a frame.

We must NEVER forget the masters or how we got to be where we are today.
We must respect all manners of art, for one day they may be the masters.

the Beginning

I think maybe that’s a rather too simplistic model, sorry.
There have always been and will always be many different facets to art, and so there should be.
Just as there are elite athletes aspiring to the olympics, there are also those who aspire to being able to run around the block. We each find our own level and those who appreciate it. One is as valid as the other. Recognition, though is a gift we cannot take lightly without it losing its value.
Art is, and always has been, by it’s nature, subjective.
Thanks for giving us another medium to work with, but red bubble will remain a small part of a big picture.

This continual degradation of traditional fine art attitude is disappointing. Why does the advance of more access to art to more people have to come at the expense of what has come before. Many traditional artists who love redbubble and see it as an excellent way to bring their art into the homes of more people probably wouldn’t like seeing you condemn what they do or aspire to.

Go redbubble, go online art but not at the cost of what has come before.

Haha, is this supposed to make us who don’t succeed in the gallery world feel better? :P I wouldn’t say that the traditional art is dying. Not by a long shot. And I would much rather surround myself with real art in a gallery and see the beautiful textures, sights, sounds and smells of a full series of works than buy a print or go to an online gallery of us amateur artists. It’s really not the same experience. Not by a long shot. I’m never going to own a painting that’s 3m in size and really well crafted, but by golly, I want to see it in person.

I think the main reason why the old way of art is seemingly dying, is because artists don’t really think as much as they used to. We have simplised art at the cost of genius, and really, aren’t these sites partially to blame for making art look easy therefore we don’t really have to try? I for one wouldn’t want to celebrate that. I think it’s a shame.

Sure it’s great we can have an outlet. But to belittle the artists that are really pushing themselves and are successful in a graph just so you can pat yourself on your back and tell yourselves your better than the successful artists because they’re doing it old school is pretty well… dumb.

beauty is art is existence

art is art and all things that grow goes through phases

Brilliant.. I whole heartedly agree :o)

long live old art!!!!!

Excellent points. I agree – New Art – New Direction. Making more affordable / accessible to more people.

In response to Marilyn Brown’s comment (a person I greatly respect), I don’t believe this is intended to be a degradation of traditional art, but rather an acceptance and acknowledgment that everyone now has space to display what they perceive to be their art – a space that does not cost an arm and a leg. National Galleries and the like play a vital role, as do those great Masters whose works hang there. I, for one, would not be without them – I love visiting galleries, and I love to see what artists are doing and what direction they are taking with their art. At TAFE and RMIT, art history was my absolute favourite subject – I loved learning about those frontier-breakers who changed the direction and perception of art, and I loved writing essays on their work. But not every artist gets the opportunity to display their work in traditional galleries. Some simply can’t afford it, and mostly the rejection of their work to a particular gallery or type of gallery is based purely on the gallery owner’s own perception of what art is – which could be a total fantasy. Because traditional galleries are not available to everyone, it is a fair assumption that they are elitist. I’m sure most artists would be delighted to have their work displayed in those galleries though. These more informal “gallery spaces” are therefore an option, and a wonderful avenue for all art and artists. We learn from both the traditional spaces and artists, and from the more informal spaces and artists. But in my opinion, in many cases there is an awful lot of uncalled-for snobbery attached to “traditional” galleries.

I disagree on every point. I’ll explain:

“A Dying Art

I believe that we (i.e. you) at RedBubble are inching our way forward in the exploration of new more accessible art.”

There is no cause to think that art is easily accessible. There is much to suggest that it is rare. In Greece it was referred to as “the extraordinary experience”, and varied little from this notion until the 19th century. At this time art was connected with manufactured materials, and ideas of production following the ideas of “making” developed in the industrial revolution. It became attached to what could otherwise be described as homemade goods. It might be argued that the Greeks understood art as made things due to description by the likes of Plato regarding “techne”, but this would be incorrect. A discussion of Techne is not a discussion of “ars” or “armonia” -art.

“We don’t know where this will take us. We are leaving the well-trodden paths of big galleries, elite artists and scorned minions behind.”

This seems unlikely. Regardless of what direction one may look this same claim is given by every art movement, and is never true. Already in this you are scorning, just like the big galleries and elite artists. You haven’t moved away from scorning, you are feeling more free to scorn. Otherwise why mention these groups at all. If your new art is important it will be so in its own right, won’t it? It shouldn’t need enemies, oppressors or counterpoints. This would mean it is born of bitter resentment and reaction, instead of an independent endeavor with its own virtues or vices.

“We are finding creativity in lost corners of our world and of our own lives. We, and the world are becoming richer as a result.”

This sounds sentimental and inspiring but I see nothing unique in this, and nothing true. Creativity doesn’t lay hiding anywhere, other than the human mind, and it isn’t a virtue. People have been creative in methods of torture and murder, creativity does not imply enrichment. Creativity can have some fine uses but shouldn’t be held up as a magical resource, because it isn’t.

“I know that this is a journey that social commentators are just beginning to talk about. And it is a journey with ill-defined signposts and subtle distinctions. At the risk of ignoring the subtleties I postulate some differences between the dying art and the art still being born.”

Social commentators have been discussing these subjects for a very long time, and often it is repetitive. This same sentiment that you relate here has been said many many times. What makes it interesting is it is said by opposing sides. It is so vague all parties can lay claim to it. Art dying and art being born is untenable. There are material physical effects of art. Art cannot be renewed, or die, though the frequency of exposure to art can be diminished. Art has physiology and material causes. It would be like saying: “We are replacing that old tired lack of oxygen to the brain for a brand new experience of lack of oxygen to the brain.” It isn’t a question of offering new product lines, new and improved art, or other commercial nonsense. Art existed prior to markets.

“Old art:
Hopes to be in a national gallery
New art:
Hopes to be on people’s walls and backs.”

“Old art”, whatever this may mean, doesn’t hope to be in National galleries. Artists may hope their work ends up in national galleries, but only so they end up on people’s walls, vaults, magazine covers, and even backs. Just like the new art you mention. Art is not an independent thing, or a God. Art doesn’t hope. You are saying “artists”- Old and new artists. But this is old, old jargon, and old claims, well over 100 years old. It is also untrue. Artists hope many varied things regarding their work. It can’t be so easily distributed into two opposing political agendas. That would be silly. What is more is neither thing you list is exactly “reaching for the stars”. What shabby hopes for artists. Galleries? Walls? Backs? No the things called art today are so poorly crafted! They aren’t made to boggle the minds and work wonders, they are either for galleries or backs. How uninteresting.

“Old art:
Seeks our praise.
New Art:
Seeks our involvement.”

Let’s consider this a moment. Old art seeks to be admirable and new art seeks to be communal. Neither thing is true. As you have separated new art into an elite group already by proclaiming “old art” when you are aware old art is other artists with different explanations for their work than your own, you have negated communal engagement. regardless of supposed “style” one must have “new art” rationale to engage. One must come to your party, your sect, you are not sharing out generously among everyone. What is more is seeking admiration or approval involves others. So again there is no difference between old art and new. It only seems you are setting up adversarial sides.

“Old art:
Aspires to educate.
New art:
Aspires to engage.”

As far as I understand this this means nothing. The language is interesting though. Most educational institutions have been employing the word “engage” to describe how one should educate. For example the National Endowment for the Arts, “Reading at Risk” survey based on the 2000 census spends a good deal of time relating engagement to education, and this survey has been very influential in schools and educational systems in the U.S since it was published. So again, old is new.

This may be unimportant if one looks at the statements themselves. Who said old art is meant to educate. The Greeks told the story of the contest of painters whose powers of illusion could fool nature. Illusion isn’t education, it is experiential. There have been some silly claims art exists to make statements or have meaning, or other self righteous nonsense, but it isn’t very convincing.

Likewise engagement, vague term that it is, has sever limitations. The audience at a play should be engaged only in so far as they maintain their role as audience. To go further would, again, ruin the illusion, the magic show, the painting, the play, etc. The point is the experience, which has been intentionally and meticulously assembled by the artist. If you engage beyond your place, you will ruin the laboriously created illusion. You become a vandal.

“Old Art:
Is found in galleries, mansions, colleges, and garrets.
New art:
Is found in kitchens, bedrooms, and cupboards.”

Again these overlap, again, are not communal and again allow only elite involvment.
Mansions too have kitchens, bedrooms and cupboards and with things in them. As do colleges, and several houselike structures have garrets. The difference here is an attempt to villify the wealthy. Some general caricature of rich folks, or snobs is suggested. But this class bigotry and need not believed. Wealth is no indicator of art, neither aptitude with art, nor love for art, and neither is poverty.

What if it exists in your cupboard or bathroom or bedroom, it is likely it isn’t art. These could be termed as crafts if highly fashioned or beautiful things, or doodads, or trinkets, or decorations if less so. Art is not everything and anything. If everything is art, than nothing is. Art, from it’s earliest roots has been known as an exceptional thing. If the “new art” is a diminished, plain, banal thing it is not only abundant, but can be ignored.

“Old art:
Supports supports an industry of curators experts and critics.
New art:
Supports a family of Kids, cats and grandchildren.”

This sentimental and false statement is ridiculous. Curators, experts and critics also support families of kids, cats or dogs, and grandchildren. What does this have to do with anything? Being homesy and folksy, loving one’s family, or family values don’t say anything about art. This is a dishonest and distracting comparison. Again caricatures of heroes and villains, but not factual. This is like some borrowed antique myth of the art world, handed down and garbled.

“Old art:
Condescends to every day.
New art:
Is every day.”

New art sounds terrible. Again “old” art is by all descriptions, and in the way it triggers systems of the brain, unusual. It involves unusual stresses, and conflicting data, that happen in rare combinations. It isn’t every day. People exposed to large doses of art can go insane, it is an effect called “kindling” and involves hyper active, and habitual firing of the nuerons due to certain stimuli. It can cause psychosis. So if what you are terming “new art” is every day, it is probably nothing like art and just some stuff that people have made. You may be proud of what you made, or make, and enjoy doing it but this does not make it art. Art refers to something other than your “personal expression” or stuff that you make. Every picture isn’t art.

What you seem to be describing is hobbies, or crafts. Which is fine. I have no problems with these things. It is interesting when hobbyists and amateur craftsman attempt to inflate their endeavors into a religion, and an adversarial religion complete with bad guys, and good angels. It signals resentments, jealousies and righteousness on their part. A greediness for undue credit.

“Old art:
Lauds a superior creativty.
New art:
Celebrates a shared humanity.”

New art:
Celebrates a shared humanity….excluding of course, old artist. This is nonsense. What exactly is a “shared humanity?” And once that is cleared up why are things we share of any importance or worth note? Wouldn’t that be a given among us all? Wouldn’t it be far more interesting, and lead to more unknown things if we explored exceptional human tasks, endeavors or events? You are describing glorifying the lowest common denominator. A celebration of wallowing in the mire. For my part I would rather reach for the stars. See the amazing and astounding and leave aside the common, bland and ordinary for the extraordinary. There is nothing charming about resigning oneself to the dregs, the blunt, the poorly made, the unexceptional.

You have made old art, when different from new art sound very good: admirable, lauding superior creativity, and scoffing at plasticine.

New art sounds terrible, bankrupt and mean. It’s virtues are it is plain and common? It is everyday? Why not just say: “New art is really boring, but we can do it together…unless you hold slightly different ideas about art than do I, than you suck, and are probably some type of mongrel.

I hope new art is a still born creature.

I don’t agree, simply because most artists I know would love to be able to make a living doing what they do, splitting hairs here trying to make ordinary artists feel extraordinary….bullshit is still bullshit and there is absolutely nothing wrong with being ordinary…though I admit I have found a few extraordinary artists here, funny they don’t seem to sell as well, probably coz they don’t play the RB game….. As an art community, its as new as the internet is..

I would have to disagree. As far as I can see, art is as it has always been. There are some stuffy shirted people who never want to try anything new and scoff at anyone who does; there are some who are just at home doing it, well or badly; some who go to schools or study under Masters or have sponsors and, so, maybe get more credit for talent than they actually deserve; while those who have none of the advantages get looked over, even when so talented it fairly screams out into the night .. and all sorts of in-betweens. It’s just that more of the otherwise disadvantaged, thanks to sites like this, have the opportunity to share their work with others. They don’t have to whore themselves to their sponsors or to the gallery owners or to Kings or anyone else.

But, even so, not all sites are created equal; and some of them still expect the artist to simultaneously hold up art as a lofty ideal beyond the reach of mortals .. and to open their legs wide for all passers by.

I have gotten the same flak, online and off, for not following all the traditional methods and using only traditional tools that has been the bane of mostly every artist who is open to experimentation since the beginning of time.

Art is still a grand ideal, I think; it is still something that must be striven for, fought for, lauded over, cried over, ached for, and loved beyond .. well, anything but your other higher passions, whatever they may be. Sure, someone can be called an artist without that, especially if they went to a school and got a degree that says so, but, it’s not the same thing as feeling the need in your soul. Anything else is just wanting praise and I’ve seen a LOT of that going on.

I’ve gotten into a lot of trouble for daring to suggest to someone that one of their sentence was a bit confusing but I liked their story, or saying that while it is not my favorite subject I admire the talent behind a painting. All some people want is the praise, not to hone their talents, not to share and build up, or any of that. Same old, same old!

Nice one Martin.

P.S. I just bought some plasticine on the weekend :) Claymation and clay illustration fun times ahead!

Old art: good design for kings and queens
New art: good design for you and me

I would have said Play-Doe LOL and it tastes good.
Who says Art is for the Elite!!!? What do the Elite know about Art? Do they Suffer as artists, do they they experience like Artists, I don’t mean to cut anyone down for being Elite, nor rich or Opulent but it has seemed to me ( And had been quite discouraging for me) that only the Rich or the Successful could experience art, but what do they express, the Artist bleeds from their ability to interpret the world around them, or Capture The World in ways that are calming or exciting, We the Artist Emphasize Life in a myriad myriad to the tenth. Art Cannot be stopped it is a human expression, expressing Freedom and it’s opposite, Life and it’s end, Creation and an endless way to see it, Through Art we have come to an awakening in ways Technological, Emotional, Mathematical, Scientific, Biological, the List will never end.
Well Done RedBubble!!! and Congratulations to all who are a part of the Revolution in Art. Well done indeed!!!!

Please remember some of the other useful comments from above like…

Dave Pearson
Dave Pearsonbeta tester, about 21 hours ago

I tend to find it a worry when anything is split into “old” and “new”, when there’s an attempt to divide and deprecate the old. The “new” I see in the above appears to have existed as long as I can remember,

OR

Banal Heed, about 21 hours ago

What a load of old tosh and nonsense. Art is Art…as simple as that. The rest of it is what others try and enforce upon it. Art can be everything on both sides of that at the same time, and none of it at all. There seems to be an ongoing fascination at RB about enforcing RB’s perception on art, instead of just celebrating it in all its many varied guises.

AND ALSO PLEASE REMEMBER….

Pilgrim/Martin may or may not be the nicest guy in the world and he could in fact be Australian of the year, but this is a commercial website, bankrolled by some fairly smart business people, and just like good old McDonalds advertising, you will have smoke blown up your proverbial, as long as it makes good business sense to do so.

Aren’t we just one big happy happy family (;->
If you haven’t done so… it wouldn’t hurt some of you to go and watch (maybe again for some) ‘Life of Brian’, it can be (on a occasions) a very useful reality check.

Mmm…delicious plasticine.

Old art is a state of mind.
New art is the minds state and what we do with it.

So, what have the romans ever done for us?

I am going to try not to go on and on to the same lengths as some of the others who have replied;

Many of the masters died paupers and without recognision. Others at other times had patrons (more ancient times – da Vinci, Michaelangelo etc.) and some were discovered by the rich and had fame thrust upon them whilst still trying to sell stuff to survive e.g. David Hockney(?) of “Campbell’s Soup” fame, Pablo Picasso etc.

These were all artists who studied art and tried to perfect their art and it was the world fortunes that determined where and when and at what price their art was worth and where that art ended up.

I strongly feel that today, the discipline of art is dying. I think that people are deliberately flaunting the rules of art – these rules that appease our inate sense of aesthitics – and are doing so because they couldn’t be bothered learning them and the excuse is that they want to “expand the horizons”, “break down the barriers”, and numerous other reasons. But lawlessness only appeases the lawless. Slautering a calf on the steps of Parliament House is not art even though the “artist” says it is.

The masters were only masters because they reacted to something in their lives and wanted to express exactly their reaction to what impressed them and so spend time perfecting it. That’s why they were masters. The same goes for all branches of the arts, music, film etc. What about Mozart, Chopin, Eric Clapton etc. compared to the atonal, cacophonous new (lawless) music that assaults our senses now and then (and I’m not talking about Led Zeppelin either – but the ABC Classic station when they play that program).

Well, I’m sorry! I did rave on after all….....

I haven’t studied a structuralist breakdown of a subject since my Masters degree – what fun!

Although, useful as these dichotomies can be, they are unsatisfactory in that they necesarily polarise what are really complex and subtle situations. I do not bemoan the dying of an ‘old art’ nor celebrate the dawn of a ‘new’ one, but look on with interest at the paradigm shifts taking place in the way in which human beings engage with the world around them.

Incidentally, I think you’ll find it was Andy Warhol who did the Campbell Soup, the Rennaissance was not ‘ancient times’ and Michaelangelo Buonarotti and all that lot did not ‘reach deep inside themselves’ but were craftsmen, who painted what the client wanted, how they wanted it and counted the days ‘till the next paycheck…just like the rest of us.

Sorry to bitch.

It’s great to have an art community to share and learn from. I think that the new computer mediums are art. However, for me nothing can replace the experience of creating with oils and the like. Also, as has been stated, many pieces simply can not be truely experienced unless viewed in person.

Art lives for a time then it either dies, goes to the dumpster, or is stowed away.
Museums are like closets, but with admission fees and guards.
Sometimes you might even see something exciting there, but mostly it is about seeing what used to be hip.

I dig RedBubble!

Love this observation. I guess I’m a hybrid, I love seeing my art on walls, desktops, etc, but I also aspire to have it in galleries.

I love to make mine as accessible as possible.

I’ve really enjoyed reading other people’s opinions on this topic. It’s quite hard to pin down and probably shouldn’t be:) I like the fact that many more people are being inspired to have a go at producing great art through sites like this, and I also like to hear feeback, encouragement, criticism, ways to improve technique etc, but most of all I like how Redbubble is free of advertising and trying to get us to buy things. I like viewing and sharing. Great comments! Don.

There is nothing old or new everything has been done. Look at Picasso’s work he studied classical art. I will not put down any of those geniuses for what people want to put upfront trying to rename art as New Art. Who can replace Michaelangelo? Da Vinci, Rhaphael, or Rembrandt, Who? Nobody we live in an age of a lot of crap starting with music that hurts your ears. Who predicted this better than Heronimus Bosch? Who’s paintings are under lock and key in Spain?
Why? Bosch painted Lambs when Europe never saw one why? He was a seer…..Did I miss something? So far RB has displayed really good tastesfull art beautiful people and great art…...........love it thanks

This is well written ..I agree..
..and just to add..I am very happy to be here..this place R/B is full of wonderful artists and beautiful wonderful generous hearted people..It’s a real family ..a real home for all of our art..and a place where we can be ourselves and loved for it !..

regards from catherine walker
xxxooo

I believe that we (i.e. you) at RedBubble are inching our way forward in the exploration of new more accessible art. We don’t know where this will take us. We are leaving the well-trodden paths of big galleries, elite artists and scorned minions behind. We are finding creativity in lost corners of our world and of our own lives. We, and the world are becoming richer as a result.
I know that this is a journey that social commentators are just beginning to talk about. And it is a journey with ill-defined signposts and subtle distinctions. At the risk of ignoring the subtleties I postulate some differences between the dying art and the art still being born.

You know… i wonder at exactly what point in time will all this ‘new stuff’ everyone considers is so new and more beneficial than that ‘old stuff’ will cease to be new and become… ‘old stuff’.

Will it be next Tuesday at 7.35am, or will it be when some dictator says it’s decadent, or perhaps in 3 years time, or maybe when some other well intentioned website declares ‘we are the new!’

How ungrateful and disrespectful to your fellow man / artist can than be.

Then again, this is the ‘me now’ generation i guess, and i suppose it’s own self importance is what it’s all about baby!

Art should be everywhere and for everyone. Artists deserve to make a decent living because art is work. They shouldn’t have to compromise their monetary gain. Most artists that I know truly believe that all people should be able to attain or do art if they wish to. They shouldn’t have to suffer without art because they are poor or because they don’t fit in a clique.

“Gotta have better thought’s better shit that anybody has ever thought of!.”
When you come to this RedBubble game you have to creat your own lane.You Dig!

Cool!

Am new here but for what its worth..redbubble is an Excellent Nexus for the Creative individual..it feeds on itself…ideas flourish as the imagination is spiced visually and verbally….thus the bubble will evolve into whatever format a particular subject requires..its the Nature of Creativity..unleashed…Our Darkest corners and Wildest Dreams will manifest themselves…..in Art…for we hunger to Express what resides in our Soul….its the Nature of a temporary species…hope you dont think think this reply is too Arty….Saluti ..Leonardo….my Real Name…..

i really love this

Well said ….... RedBubble Rules !!!!!!!!

Who doesn’t love plasticine and all it can do? and I love art as well, whether old or new!! Art galleries should be on the new list as well… they should just include written work and new work of unknown artists, as well as really old paintings of grey stripes.

all that was said above applies, know is wrong or right all points well made, it is great to have a forum for expression and this was certainly one that everyone that has a tinge of expressing ones self though their art has had that opportunity to do so. RB has been a great site for many people who haven’t been able to pursue their love for creating art as they might have wished. This works for me and glad I can contribute something that someone else also feels a connection too. Old art new art it’s all about expression and will always be changing through time.

Old art or new; there’s room for all art. Come on RB don’t be so smug and patronising about old art!

lol Jeanoxo

well done – Essence of Arts, honest and clear.
i would say that New Art when looked at closely, contains everything , sometimes “things” that aren’t art at all , , Old Art was something magical and special that it “employs” “armies of well speaking educated suit wearers” nowadays to describe it our way, while it wasn’t even artist intention to be praised for centuries , just did their job , got paid or not, died poor anyway.. Our job is to create New Art like we would like it to last for centuries , in order to achieve that we have to pursue an innovative techniques and subjects , improve our skills, explore our imagination on daily basis – push it to the limits , don’t struggle to much though, you might end up pushing out some (f)ART or s…t :)

Nah! Not that last thing. All art hopes to sell From anything I ever heard, the old masters would have liked to sell, to anyone who would pay. It’s after they die that they get put in museums!

Interesting thoughts. I think it will take a while to filter down to the more senior members of the arts community (I am thinking of EVERY art teacher I’ve had for example) but hopefully the majority of contemporary artists can appreciate the new ways :)

Woo Hoo, stick it to the art snobs, lol. I do agree with your sentiment, although I do like visiting galleries with old classics, too. After all, we can’t blame the artists of old for the modern snobbery marking up all their works. Most of those artists from times-gone-by created for the sake of creation as well, and didn’t make much. It’s the dealers that make all the money off them!

Art is in the eye of the beholder. We all have varying likes and dislikes, which is great. Makes for an interesting world!
Plasticine is a great medium to work with. I use it every day; my kids love it too.

“Pass on by, pick a flower before you walk, see it, smell, it, paint its beauty in your mind before it wilters and fades away.
Don’t look back, just remember where you came from, so if you were ever to get lost, then you can find your way back for me to give you directions again.

Old art says to new art :)”

Nicely put Nancy Vice.

I would love to be able to paint and if I could I think I would strive to hope that at least one of may paintings would be brilliant, individual and appreciated enough to be displayed a hundred years from now in an art gallery, but my “art” is photography, not as good as many but I’m happy, I enjoy it and I work with it. “I look and I see but it really is technology, not me.”

Don’t get me wrong, I think photography is a beautiful and wonderful form of art and I love it, but I do love an “old master”.

Don’t we just love to catagorise lol

Just what is “Old Art” and what is New Art” ?

Shouldn’t we be calling them “Old Style and “New Style” ?
For after all that is what both forms are, and I’m assuming the difference is oils, water etc on canvas or stone etc is “Old Art” and the art done through electronic means is “New Art”

It is all art, its just a different style.

I believe the lists above are a falsehood in so much as which artist is not a combination of all to one degree or another.

Although I don’t consider myself an artist, yet, I would hope that others can be subjective and do so.

And who wouldn’t like a work of “New Style” being hung in a national gallery one day as well as a lounge room wall or on a fridge. I know I would however unlikely, but not impossible, that may be.

I’m sure the great masters of the “Old Style”, when starting out, just aimed at creating work they liked and hoped that others would also like it and purcahse it so they could survive and support themselves and their families.. None actually aimed at hanging their work in famous galleries etc until after they became known and started being commissioned to do so.

I meant to add the following statement.

Sounds a bit like us all from the “New Style” doesn’t it ?? :-)

I’m not knowledgeable enough to comment on the truth of what you wrote in your chart but I like it, mostly because it got rid of an old guilt. In my decades of life I’ve rarely gone to galleries and other “this is art” places and when I did I often felt uncomfortable and wanted to leave ASAP. On the other hand, I can spend hours looking at art, even what some might not call art but it is beauty and creativity to me nonetheless, in friends’ homes and yards, out in public display, on people, etc. I had felt I “should” be going to the “this is art” places—it was a duty I was shirking. Now, that guilt is gone, thanks.

Martin, don’t do that.

The difference between the living artist and the dying artist is that in dying he thinks he has to separate his past experiences with what drove him from his future ones. You’ll move on and accumulate, just all we all do. You make some good points, but really the point wasn’t what I think you meant the outcome to be. Instead it was an admission of something driving you to escape something… double stated, but you know what I’m saying…

Red bubble is a great way to get art to the people. Not everyone feels comfortable or has the urge to step into a gallery. A pity really because there is so much to be experienced through them. However those who aren’t lucky enough to be “discovered” by a gallery need to have their work viewed and commented on and this is a great way to achieve that. Enough of elitism. Creativity can really fizzle when no feadback is forthcoming. Today we are communicating with everyone not hanging around waiting for our art to be approved of by galleries and art writers and critics. Let the people decide!!

I’m just gonna say…..I like redbubble :)

and i apologise for not making a longer more controversial post

I understand about some galleries feeling inaccessible as we’ve many here in Chicago that fit that description. Art is priced in the 6 or more figures and a cold, silent gallery manager gives one the evil eye upon entering. The energy is static and the message sent is : ‘If you doesn’t look wealthy and immediately indicate intention of purchasing, don’t come in’. Dead birds nailed onto pegboard and twisted onto barbed wire, road kill preserved in acrylic boxes, feces smeared canvases, and so on may be an expression of the artist’s neurosis and angst but is nothing I personally care to admire or live with in my home or office. Yet this is my competion. The gallery owners and artists bemoan decreased traffic and the fact the general public must be educated to understand why such art is important and why they should spend the price of a small home in in order to bring them home and enjoy. Personally, turds and mangled, spray painted carcasses arn’t something I want anywhere near my living space. Of course there are also galleries featuring classic fine art by contemporary artists but my painting doesn’t fit into that shoebox either. So I seek out alternative spaces like Red Bubble. If I waited for acceptance into the Chicago art community, galleries or high end outdoor shows in the Midwest, piles of art would accumulate in my closets and under the bed. In over 15 years of applications and juries I wasn’t accepted into one of them. Yet when I took my art outside my area and directly to The People, bypassing reps, agents, galleries and exhibitions paces, I found a favorable response and at least some recognition for the work Im doing. The Chicago Artist Association is great at promoting grunge art, industrial pieces, shock and sensational work focusing on violence and denigrating sexual acts, and works in these categories by high school and college students that fit into these categories. One month they featured local sex workers as artists. While touting themselves as remarkably open minded and urging others to be the same, the fact is my genre doesn’t exist in their eyes. In fact, Im sure the artists who join and run our Chicago art communities would assure you that my paintings aren’t ‘art’ at all. It’s a neither fine in the classic sense, nor in the exhibition space sense.

As for museums, I love visiting them and feel that they are always accessible and welcoming. However, anything similar to what I create doesn’t stand a chance of hanging in one, even in a temporary exhibit. There simply isn’t a place for me in the art community, which (in my area) is limited and elitist. So I’m all for fourums like Red Bubble that offer people like myself a place to view and exhibit art.

The only gallery I really care to visit is Soloman R Guggenhein in NYC to gaze apon Franz Marc’s ‘Yellow Cow’ a real masterpiece IMO.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
mindless dribble

Words~ words, some like to hear themselves… Though it is interesting to read others thoughts.. That’s what makes this site.. people… love you all….

Hmmmm…interesting thoughts. I am in agreement that today most artists aspire to engage. Art/writing is not my profession, just an old lover.

Couldn’t agree more! There’s definitely been a paradigm shift since the internet back to more of a sense of community (even if it is online!)......

Isn’t art a communication after all? Why should we just leave the shouting to a few ill chosen ones by galleries? It’s great to see a place evolving where we can all have a go…....and good onya Redbibble!

Yep, right on the button. Some years ago, there was a gallery exhibition (at the Barbican, London, I think) of the work of Communist Photomonteur, John Heartfield. His work originally adorned the covers of a workers newspaper called the ‘AIZ’ (Arbeiter-Illustrierte-Zeitung), and he would have been spinning in his grave to know his work was being exhibited in a gallery context, which as a Dadaist he deplored!

Certainly it seems that it’s the internet that is bringing people together in this “new art” sort of way and I think it’s cool. It applies to other things too like being able to express your views or share music with the public in a way that wasn’t really so accessible before. I really enjoy being able to share ideas with people all over the world in this way. I am currently looking at collaborating on a song with another songwriter online I have never met. And I’ve never really visited art galleries or talked much to other artists before so I love redbubble where it is so easy to do that. I am definitely for the new art but anyone still doing “old art” I admire also. :-)

Great blog! As a soon to be educator just completing the last few months of university training, I have been exposed to the link between children stating, “I can’t draw” and the elitism that started around the modernist era and unfortunately still permeates school art rooms today. I too subscribed to the untalented, hopeless masses that the ‘artistic gods’ somehow missed until this mindset was severely challenged by my good friend and subject coordinator Dr Linda Ashton. Your blog is very accurate – long live all artforms here at Red Bubble:-)