RedBubble

touch my heart…thanks for those words…...terri

ditto

Absolutely, I believe that all artists should get a chance to make a living off art, and unfortunately places like the National Gallery, put emphasis on those big names, not that I don’t love the artwork, but when are things going to change so artists can make a genuine living. I agree on money going to those that need it, eg. aged pensioners, homeless, less fortunate.

I sometimes have fancy dinner in front of my computer, surfing the bubble. Well, fancy for me, anyway…

And great quote! I may remember it… ;o)

dinner.. thats what i forgot today, darn it !

so offer the bubble as the source of people art?

Wow-finally someone seeing the point of the whole art-experience….

Well said Martin.

Well said indeed !!!

Great point, well written, i totally agree

lovely, truer words never said.

xx
s-a

The world is run by fuckheads..

I agree…well said!!!

There is enough great art on redbubble to uplift most individuals, who can see it for free! It is a changing world, perhaps the traditional art world needs to move with it.

I think there are many who agree! =) Thanks for the space to create!

It’s a privilege to be associated with you “RB” people – thank you!
memac

well said indeed so many people place emphasis on material things real artists create for the fun of it, the sheer joy of creation. funny how we artists after we are dead are worth millions

good point and words… but what would you have museums house….and what would become of all the classics… would they ALL disappear into private vaulted collections as so many already have? i believe there is room for both kinds…...........b

Agree with your comments…Red bubblers have certainly uplifted my spirits…We all just want to sell some of our stuff too….”Who will buy… ” lmao ( scene from the theatre lol ;))
xx :)) Think its time for my bed after midnight here in chilly Cumbria, Uk…...nite, nite zzzzzzzzzzzz

Things like this remind me why I keep doing photography. Thank you.

hahahahahahahaha!!!! I agree with Inspektor Herring!

i agree, good words ,

You have a point, but remember not everyone has a computer to search for art or upcoming artist. Only us artist do this. The museum is a necessary thing if I hadn’t seen Raphels work at the Metropolitan Museum in NY. I may not have the urge to be as good as Raphael. Art is very important Leonardo called it a science

Hi Martin.

Which newspaper does the article appear? Thanks.

I guess we do what we do because we love doing it, and need to express ourselves (aren’t we lucky!) But does anyone else feel that , as a generalization, Australia does not support or appreciate artists enough?

absolutely agree

I lived 20 years in Taos, which is essentially a small community of artists, two hours North of Santa Fe. There were many artists who became recognized, like R.C. Gorman. There were hundreds living there and surviving on work they sold in the local galleries. I will tell you that there were many great artists there and huge price tags is not what makes them great. Just as there are many great artists, photographers and writers here. Taos was a close-knit group, a family really. And I get the same feeling here at RedBubble.

RedBubble is all about further understanding by helping and encouraging people to do art.

Thanks for the reminder. Some times I forget why I’m here at the bub and what RB’s all about. I’m glad you’ve stayed in touch with this vision. Very reassuring.

one of the core reasons why I love RedBubble.

WHO ARE THEY TO DECIDE WHO EATS AND WHO ARE GREAT ARTISTS. WE ARE ALL ARTISTS IN OUR OWN WAY, I SAY SPEND THE MONEY SO PEOPLE AND THEIR CHILDREN CAN EAT.

Very well stated!

Today’s little known names may be remembered as masters one day – a point not to be over-looked!

Well said.

two words come to mind, redbubble Community…
thats what its all about,
well said.

Good stuff. This place rocks and I’m feeling at home here. The National Gallery of Australia won’t even return my calls ?!

I would never have tried my hand at digital art if it wasn’t for redbubble and the positive feedback I have received from other bubblers. My work may not be “Great Art”, but then again I never get this exposure and understanding from the National Gallery!

Smack on it Pilgrim! Yep, I get a bit of rush having nice and more importantly, considered and focussed comments about my work.

But the biggest rush with RedBubble is seeing so many people doing extraordinary things. A very sustaining feeling knowing that it’s not all rising interest rates and which football celebrity is making a goose of himself; there really is life out there!

As “mission statements” _{or whatever the buzz phrase du jour is} go, this is by far the best and most sincere I have ever read. Superbly stated!

You had me at ‘Although on one level I question why somebody would give to acquire multi-million dollar art pieces rather than give to save lives in Burma or China.‘

Absolutely true, Martin. Although it is an inspiration, and to my mind essential, to see great works by great artists that have earned that right of special recognition, one does wonder at the unrealistically large monetary value society places on them, and spends on them without question. At the same time we look on in shock and horror at the appalling conditions and events in the rest of the world, and on home turf, and we struggle to raise enough “charitable” money for humanitarian purposes, to assist others to manage even a subsistence lifestyle, let alone raise enough for them to benefit from, or expect as their right, ongoing good nutrition, living conditions, good health benefits/health services and freedom!

i like what you said Martin :)

Your statement and standing are well honored….. Although I do agree with Butchart, I truly thank you for being who you are….. ~S

they should look here

You’ve hit the nail right on the head Martin.

It is, indeed, conflicting.

It is, indeed, conflicting.

yeah, to all above, nice to know that there is a heart with a brain at the top! WELL DONE

$150 Million to spend on art? Send them to my portfolio!!!!!!

It’s a perversity of the worst kind that art seems to only be valuable after the artist is dead. I will therefore fake my own death on several occasions throughout my life. Wait for the money to come rolling in and then return to collect it all. Fuck anyone that thinks classic art is worth more than contemporary art. Classic art should be free. The instant the artist dies it should go into the public domain.

In fact, I might just stipulate this in my will – and for any art I sell… you own it until I die. Then the world owns it you fucker. You’re not going to make money selling my art after I’m gone.

—and then I wake up and realize my art is never going to be valuable. Which is actually quite reassuring.

Martin, thank you.

Great words my friend! Great encouragements!

Well, I’m into music, and if you go around the web listening to posts at the various songwriter’s review groups, you’ll hear a lot of struggling musicians who are much better than 95% of what’s on the radio. Oh, maybe the production values aren’t there, but the heart is. Would Bob Dylan have even a chance today?

I LOVE PAUL McCLINTOCK’S RANT….....HUGELY FUNNY….......LOLOLOL
So well said Martin…............I love my bubble….............and all my bubble family …........... that will do me anyday…..........LONG LIVE THE BUBBLE.

“Great Art” has usually been done by dead artists. That’s what makes it “great”. The source has dried up. I’ve too much living to still do to be “great” yet.

One of the great lessons art and creativity teaches the world is worth, without worth we are not valuable let alone the art we seek to sell. Perhaps when lives are not spent so cheaply art will have value in everybody’s hearts.

that statement is exactly why i return to the bubble rather than the multitude of other art networking sites out there. thanks martin for uplifting my hitherto flagging spirit!

Well done and well said. Thank you.
Carole.

RedBubble is definitely giving us exposure and sales opportunity and incentive and also an opportunity to learn and expand our talents. What more could any of us ask for.

The retail end of RB is so well presented and structured. What surprised me was the back end, the section of RB reserved entirely for its artists. What they have given us in terms of groups and forums at their expensive is beyond impressive.

well said…thank you….let us hold to that intention…..

Mmmm. Do you think they could spare a few dollars for an RB card or two?

So many of us…would be looked down on..because of our backgrounds, being handcap, being poor, in a big gayla art gallery, I was turn down because I spoke inproper english…and handcap…But did RB ask me if i could talk well? no..Did RB ask me if I was handcap?No ..HERE we are all maded welome..Thank you REDBUBBLE.

Thanks Martin.

agree! well said.

:)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Mausoleum: A stately or imposing edifice erected as a commemorative burial place…
Is the national gallery just that, a place to commemorate the works of the dead?

I’ll stay here, living artists are more fun…

What will you create tomorrow?

‘Onya, Martin, couldn’t agree more.

Sooooo… are you saying I am not important… I can make a fancy dinner. I agree with you for the most part, but I still think there is a difference between great art, good art, and total crap… then again, it is all perspective right? What I might view as crap, someone may want to spend a million plus on it( as they have in times before and will in times to come.).

Right on the money with this comment Martin. Well done

Human expression versus bought corporate status

this is very well written and says a great deal. other areas of our lives are afflicted with this same problem but nobody notices, or at least if they do they just carry on as before. Here we are doing (and we can have our own fancy dinners, that’s easy!)

Great comments from all. To see great art is a sublime experience, to see what is being produced and presented on Bubble is more. In my experience it is a real privlege to see the growth and creativity of all Red Bubblers. If a society can afford to purchase great art lets support it, I am positive in a few years time there will be people from Red Bubble that will be more widely recognised as producing “Great Art’

For my self, I keep the following quote on hand. Art is not a comfortable activity, Its an extreme sport, as risky, pain filled and exhilarating as BASE-jumping.”

RB is my take of point.

Regards to all. Just keep on jumping.

Redbubble has uplifted my life as well, the art and the people here are fantastic.

Do Not Forget Draw Day in June see new group Draw Day

Great quote!

One of the most memorable lessons of my college art education was the professor’s observations that art brings a new way of looking at the world, and a common understanding in imagery. Who cannot understand the e emotion of “The Scream,” the alienation of Hopper, or the movement of “Nude Descending a Staircase?” The world would be a darker less understanding place without those artists who created them.

I guess I am a bit confused here???? The uplifting of art in a venue like this is a good thing to me. Isn’t this what most of us aspire to? So I can’t say I disapprove. Also, the artists that are being purchased and displayed have probably well earned the right. Not to say that there aren’t many deserving artists here but who of us would refuse to have our art bought and displayed?
While I agree that money should be spent on the many causes of human suffering, art also tells that tale and should be sponsered. It helps us to truly see suffering in places we would otherwise never see and helps with human understanding.

As for RB encouraging art, it does do that but I have to say that there is no serious critique here. It is a nice place to share your art but is not doing what it could to help artists improve through honest criticism and exchange of information. I love RB but come here for friendship-not to improve on my art. For that, I look elswhere.

Sorry if this offends. It is not meant to. Just have to be honest.

Ann

Thank you for this well-reasoned comment on art philanthropy. Red Bubble is more fun than art gallery galas and fund raising dinners, believe me! For a start, the art work and photography is outstanding here.

Whatever…...but i do know I would possibly dry up and die icreatively speaking I didnt have the support off here. You all lift me up!!!!

If nothing else this topic highlights the obvious – art is subjective. Opinions on any art always have, and always will, cover the full range of human emotion.

Facts you will not change; In all societies there are the haves and the have nots. The haves (like all of us) want to be surrounded by the best and will put artists that manage to come to their attention on pedestals. More often than not those are artists that should be there. Sure many will be missed – wrong place – wrong time – wrong social skills…but that is life. Of those that do make it. They are the greats that inspire us, lead us, teach us. So use them but remember who brought them to your attention, gave them opportunities to grow, and provided the platform for their fame and our fortune.

Let the fat cats do their thing. If they want to spend their money on bringing art into the public realm then bring it on I say. Otherwise it would remain in private collections, die with the authors, or worse, not reach the heights of perfection that opportunities surely bring – and then we would all miss out.

....................end rant.

brilliant! my house is full of home made art – friends painting, photographs and the occasional splotch of cooking oil on the kitchen walls (my flatmates & I aren’t so fancy!)

BUT I wouldn’t change it for the world. even if I could afford ‘great art’.

thank you for this comment!

totally, totally agree, Martin.

I’ll do the National Gallery a deal… I’ll give them $100m of the donations they are seeking, so long as they buy $101m of my artworks. ;-)

Marlo, your words ring true. I have shown my art publicly and I have sold some of it and the most interesting aspect of it all is the attitude of the buyers. They want an investment! They may like your art, but if it isn’t what their upper class friends are buying or approve of, it is no good to them. Somehow I think letting someone with that attitude determine what is “great art” is a flawed process. The best experience I ever had was when I had to walk a great distance to get to my car and it started raining. A little boy came out of one of the more rundown homes on the street and gave me an umbrella. The thought came in my head of a painting I had in my trunk that didn’t sell at the show I had just taken down. When I got to my car, I drove back to his house and he came to the door. I gave him back the umbrella and I gave him my painting. The look on his face was priceless. I could see that it was something he would really treasure. That meant so much more to me than if that painting had sold to someone who thought it might be a “good investment.” To me art is a communication of love from the artist to the viewer and I always feel that from my you and all my Red Bubble friends. I do, however, love museums of all kinds. I just wish we humans would at least get our priorities straight when it comes to caring for each other. Sorry, I guess I’m a ranter, too …

With you to a point, Ann. There’s a lot of camaraderie on Red Bubble, and a lack of serious, constructive crit. That’s good on one hand – encouragement and community are vital in the nurturing of any art – but too much “oh yeah, that’s really gre-a-a-at” and you run the risk of getting bogged down in a culture of mediocrity.

Martin Hosking’s “higher purpose” claims sound a bit pompous and self-congratulatory to me. There is a place for all art, and I love the function Red Bubble is serving of providing a place for amateur and pro artists at all stages of development.

But there is surely also a place and indeed, a vital need, to make art of influence and wide acclaim available to the public in an appropriate setting. Throughout history, art has depended on wealthy patronage. Why would it be different today? And why rail against this and seek to diminish “philanthropic” support of the arts as an avenue to “really good dinners” and meeting “really important people”. That smacks of reverse snobbery.

Elitism and snobbery can work top-down and bottom-up. In both cases, the outcome is unproductive.

So true! Great words Martin!

i believe money and fame can be a very big stumbling , for an artist’s creativity, and developing their own style and developing their own voice in the art world. I see so many artist copying painting styles, subject matter, of other artist, because it sells.
Good example is going to a chester county Pa. U.S.A art show, all you will see is painting after painting of barns and canadian geese, and fox hunts. Whats worse , they all try to copy Andrew Wyeth’s painting style , and subject matter. ( no offence intended toward his work) Instead of being inspired by seeing great talent that spoke to my soul, I feel like I just escape A B- rated horrer film about soul sucking clones, who try to lure their victums in through inviting them to a art show.
I believe a true artist has the ability, and the courage to paint what is hart felt , and communicates Their own voice to the world. So don’t let money and fame turn you into clone. I would Like to say that i have seen some great original,subject matter,art style, In the art work of many of the artist and writers here at Redbubble, keep it up, you inspirer my to work at being a better artist.

i believe money and fame can be a very big stumbling , for an artist’s creativity, and developing their own style and developing their own voice in the art world. I see so many artist copying painting styles, subject matter, of other artist, because it sells.
Good example is going to a chester county Pa. U.S.A art show, all you will see is painting after painting of barns and canadian geese, and fox hunts. Whats worse , they all try to copy Andrew Wyeth’s painting style , and subject matter. ( no offence intended toward his work) Instead of being inspired by seeing great talent that spoke to my soul, I feel like I just escape A B- rated horrer film about soul sucking clones, who try to lure their victums in through inviting them to a art show.
I believe a true artist has the ability, and the courage to paint what is hart felt , and communicates Their own voice to the world. So don’t let money and fame turn you into clone. I would Like to say that i have seen some great original,subject matter,art style, In the art work of many of the artist and writers here at Redbubble, keep it up, you inspirer my to work at being a better artist.

You had a brilliant idea one day, so very far away, and even further away in a country to the north, a light went on…keep up the good work…..

Yep… thats why I only post low res photos on this site… I learned some time ago… it is not about selling art as an artist… it is all about how fat one’s wallet is… and who you can pay to buy your art…by that I mean simply… I will pay for this and that useless city project or program… and in turn I know you will buy my art no matter how ugly it is.
I have said before…. any unknown artist who expects to sell their work…WITHOUT first having a fat wallet to pay your way into the hieracy of who is who in the art world… well you had better get some good drugs to help you because you are totally delusional.

Deborah, I share your views on just about everything you mention. Just one thing, though. The Red Bubble article was referring to “philanthropic” support being sought by the National Gallery. So,as I understand it, any wealthy money would not be an investment in this case, but a donation.

I, too, can’t help but revile from the investment mentality of the rich, who see art as nothing more than a speculative vehicle for increasing their net worth. These bozos – the ones who have no appreciation or real interest in art other than fiscal – are a breed that I look on with mild contempt. Whoops – there I go exposing myself as a hypocrite after banging on about reverse snobbery in my previous post.

well said martin

Hotbeetees,
You have helped to more clearly define my point. Thank you.

Ann

“If the objective is to use art to uplift society, then “great art” is a pretty blunt weapon.”

Although I am completely against an institution imposing its own definitions of what is and what isn’t great art, benchmarks need to be set to enable us to aspire to, measure, discuss and debate the elements considered enduring and impacting in art.

Whilst it should not be the exclusive right of a gallery to assume this role, it is an important function, and not merely an excessive emphasis on money for great art. It’s just an unfortunate fact that lots of money is required to bring the physical art to the people.

You might question their motives and encourage the greater democratization of art, but we still need standards (to educate, to inspire, to critique and question) for art to endure in society. .

You might consider these standards elitist, but when it comes to other endeavours (like sport), we know full well that letting everyone kick the ball doesn’t mean everyone will kick the ball well.

RB can be an enabler and an important means of encouraging creativity, but it can never replace the cultural experience of a physical space required by some art work to really announce it’s place in society.

RB has done well but please give the galleries a break.

Whilst I don’t have anything against there being repositories of great Art or Music or any other creative endeavour one of the things that has happened in our sociey over the last few hundred years is that creativity and art got taken out of peoples lives by the attitude of – leave it to the experts – my art is not good enough – I’m not creative enough. This had the consepquence of turning us into an audience rather than a participant. This has made us much more passive about our creativity so for many people it is shut down.
We used to live in societies that were much more spontaineous about coming together to celebrate and create – musically, artistically, dancing.
Wondeful spaces like RB, comunity festivals and such give people an opportunity to explore their expression of their inherent creativity.
Interestingly – passive people , not expressing their creativity, are much more likely to turn into compliant consumers – shut down and shut off – accepting the status quo than out there banging at the barracades of societies injustices.

Ann – there are attempts, which I consider quite successsful on RB for critique – try the critique group – the macro critique forum and the general critique forum in RB. I know i have learnt a lot on them and others have expressed the same opinion.

Who cares about fancy dinners, anyway? The people here at RedBubble have become part of my family and i am both humbled and honored at what I am able to create as well as what I am able to see and experience here myself. RedBubble has changed my life, and I think that is what great art is supposed to do, is it not?

$150 million dollars worth of art, eh?...Imagine how much RedBubble art THAT would buy. And imagine how reflective of our society that would be. A very true and honest representation of contemporary art.

Imagine too, a virtual installation of RedBubble art, like a giant screen in the National Gallery, a giant WIDGET which showed “instant art”, art that has been uploaded today…straight from the upload, and onto the screen…cuppa-soup art…INSTANT!

Now THAT’s what i call art!

Well,hey, I am glad they have them long fancy galleys to but the works of such novices as Renoir, Van Gogh, Salvador Dali? ( a kid cudda dun taut him to do better than wat he dun!). I always admired a few of the works ‘cause some had great detail in them…they did not have our hr cameras..not even an instamatic throwaway and yet….a good few left some mighty fine work to inspire us contemporary artists on…Gracious they used mediums such as duck grease and bees wax to put their pigment colors into…juices of berries, koffe grounds….We have it so much better with our mediums and color tints…..heck we got MS Paint an many other softwares to help us along…photo worshops to help us edit the bad parts of pictures to make brand new smackin’ gooduns…. The arts of yore ….I am glad we gottem….but them filty rich don’t have ‘class’ like we have here on the Bubble….they should be ‘investing in the stuff I see on the front pages of this site
....Good Lands o’ Pete…Awesome talent going on here from every turn of the globe called ‘Terra firma’ I am ever so proud of my association with the ‘klassy folk” we have here.I reckon some of those ‘speculators might be right and some be outright stupid… If the value of real art is in the eyes of th beholder(s), then folks…kudos t’ ya all!

I’d just love to have one of tthose rich speculators lay dwn some green on any of my work, your work and make us all nice and happy!

Well said!! I applaud you for thinking the way you do, and it’s wonderful to be a part of a community with the same goals as I have!!!! ;-)

I’d rather give to China.
No matter how good a piece of art it will not help anyone.
On the other hand “giving” ( read tax deducting) to a NG gioves one more exposure that helping some hungry peasants somewhere…

Encore, encore!!!

art is to in form the people of what is happening in our world , such as china, as well as simply being for pleasure. Redbubble does these objections very well and also provides one of the best net works of artists around. The % of people per population that visit galleries is very small.

There’s a debate going on within my head as I read Martin’s post & everyone’s response. On one hand I actually treasure museums. I’ve enjoyed going to them since I was a child and have been bringing my son to them since he was 3, which he greatly enjoys. I feel our culture would be at a loss without them. I am from a very poor background, even though now I am not poor. When I was a child we were on Welfare, yet I was able to go to another world called a “museum” and learn and see unbelievably beautiful art that I had never seen before. This spurred me on. Although I have gained much encouragement and growth while on RB since Aug.’07, I have also felt a sense that some members are viewed as true artists and others are viewed as just “part-timers” – that there are “levels” and exclusions made (i.e., invite only groups, etc.). I feel categorized into the role of “part timer” if being judged since I must work full time at a non-profit agency to pay my bills, rather than as a photographer (which is a bummer for me). I do not have any formal photography education (although I do have an unrelated B.A.). So, I have found elitism alive and well on RB. I do see how seeking to raise a lot of money for expensive art to go into a museum could be viewed as wasteful during such a difficult financial time, and even elitist. And I agree there is plenty of free, beautiful artwork to be viewed on RB & other Internet sites. However, there are many, many adults & children who will visit museums to view art that will not visit RB & the like to view art. Perhaps remember that we can learn, be inspired by and find joy from both historical dead artists as well as from alive, new, less experienced, less educated artists – and try not to exclude either of them. Maybe instead of attacking the museums we could try to sell to them. Oh, and some of those rich people come to the fancy dinners my non-profit org hosts and donate a ton of money to us so that we may provide every kind of service imaginable to people with disabilities. So, I have to admit, I’m not to quick to put them down. We need rich people to help pay for the wheelchairs, feeding tubes, autism services, dental care for the person with CP, etc.. They also need joy so we just recently hosted a Consumer (disabled individuals) Art Show for them to enter & display their artwork. And we bring them to museums :)

Well said Martin – it’s why redbubble continues to be my favourite virtual community!

art is good :o)

You mean if I write long enough I get to eat ??????
Off to write now … too busy to write here ….
no wait!
If I write here will I get to eat sooner ?
now someone said “Great art is done by people who are dead that’s what makes it great! ” Bloody hell! If i could get a bloke to piant something when he’s dead I’d think it pretty good too!!! ... would that help me eat ?
the consensus appears to be that when you die you will automatically be great artists – W R O N G !!!! so many people who can do wonderful creative art will die with their work not getting any further than the family home. What makes art great is the passion of the artist matching the passion of the audience. What then makes that art popular to the “Classic” standard is someone taking art and getting it seen en mass! What makes art valuable is the uniqueness of it … especially if it is well liked and to a lesser degree skillful!
Critique is only useful for technical aspects. who is anyone to say you did that wrong? that is the whole point of art – to show a reality thought of but not easily projected.
Some one mentioned the scream and other great yet seemingly childish works of art. the whole meaning of that art was protest against the horrors of WW1 the shock of the returning wounded the catastrophic effects of the war on all of society. And the artists were voicing the general populas’s idea that war is wrong which was not what the wealthy wanted.
History was written by artists and recorded by politicians.
It is the cross reference of several cultural records that determines the facts
“If a tree fell in the woods and no one witnessed it – did it make a sound?”
What was kept for historical reference is what the politics of the day wanted to be known for…. it did not necessarily truely reflect the entire reality of the time.
Only this last century – with the instant truth of cameras and the free press and especially satellite TV – has the reality of the day been recorded accurately and even then the outcome can be edited and tampered with and in some cases hidden or destroyed.

And in the education department it is notorious for cutbacks to be aimed at the arts first! That is a scandal that I can never find a justification for. Especially when Sport is favoured so strongly over it. yes alright it would be iimportant to be fit and healthy but true health comes from inner peace and that is achieved through creative expression and validation! when people stressed out due to competition [and face it living is just one huge competition – wangling money to meet all the demands vs the ability to work enough to make said money !!} the first thing the therapists do is ask what hobbies you enjoy. that is because without a creative hobby your inner being will not be expressed. I would rather see the money go into the education arts programs – language culture appreciation & expression – yes bring good art to the country and promote good art of the country but also teach the people the value of these to their own existence.

Everyone else wanted to justify the money being spent or not being spent on art when they have no idea what art the gallery is thinking of buying!
I like the idea of a giant Redbubble art wigit to show what is being done and posted moment by moment [would need a bank of smaller screens for viewers to check for longer … perhaps jot down our contacts and purchase something too] This would indeed show the truest art happening NOW and give the strongest feel for what art the population does value.
I suggest RB pitch that to someone … pitched right we would be the innovators of the world of art!
Art to me is living culture recorded for all to see
Not all of us can do it not all of those who can can do it well
but remember …
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and perhaps we should remember the “blue poles” and “yellow peril” pieces that our “Experts” wasted millions on in the past.
What is the government smoke screening this time ???
What do they really want the money for?

Now that was my soap box rant for sure!
Keep Happy !!! :o)

{packing up soap box & megaphone now … oooh someone put coins in my megaphone bag :o) thank you !!! Now perhaps I can eat YAY!!! :o) }

Well Martin, I have to agree with the majority of your statements and repeat what most of have said: Well said! But that is the beauty of living in a free society being able to give flight to your thoughts. And give other people the chance to contemplate the statements!
There are always both sides of the coin to consider, but that is the value in a free system. RB gives voice to many artists and that is a great function in our society and we are truly thankful for that!

We, as creatives, are all ascending to our higher, soul purposes. At times this can be painful, but our sacrifices will be worth what we believe. Our world is becoming more communitive and our needs are being met miraculously. Thanks Redbubble, for allowing me to resonate at a higher frequency by providing this wonderful venue. Truly – Thank you.

Just wanted to say thank for writing this. The same thoughts went through my mind when I heard this news and I wondered if I was just being cynical. As an emerging artist it’s so damn hard to make ends meet, and the support to keep creating art isn’t exactly in abundance. If there isn’t money spent on supporting the artists today, there won’t be any artwork for the galleries to buy in the future.

Well said…. I agree :) (and great quote!)

I’ve often thought ‘high art’ anachronistic, but I’m glad there’s at least one stuffy old institiution left. I’ve often thought art galleries are a bit like church and it’s a place you go to worship. There’s nothing much else in our society that invites a sense of awe, so I’m all for hanging on to state and national galleries – I think we would be poorer without them. Investors have forced prices up, so art galleries complain now that acquisitions are beyond them – I see nothing wrong with donating if you have the means. There is an immense sense of history told by those paintings as well. This is our culture and our history – the story of us as a civilisation. Sorry RedBubble, but you don’t do that.
What happens to our RedBubblie efforts 10 years on? Will you have an immense data base that expands exponentially? How do you then store and recognise the best elements? You see, you serve the now – and that’s very nice, but what about the ‘then’?

Yeah good points made here.

Yes. Though what one person calls ‘great art’ another may call rubbish – which is a problem to the millions of struggling artists (traditional and photographic). Through art, perhaps, we can strive to be more human. This will only reflect in our ability to provide more compassionate support for those in need, maybe even in our desire to declare peace rather than war in our small world. Or maybe I am just looking at the world through my infrared eyes…..

Any support – especially for unknown artists – is very welcome. Too much in this world depends on ‘having already’. As many who write know, it is almost impossible to get published unless you have been already. How many ‘unknown’ artists get to exhibit their work (except on wonderful places such as rb)?

I want to be hanged!

Well said and thanks for sharing it.
Sharon

Which all begs the question, “What is great art?”. To my mind it should be as St Paul’s Cathedral was described in the 17th century (using the nuances of the vocabulary of the time), “Awful, Pompous and Artificial”. Meaning, of course that it filled the viewer with awe, inspired pomp and ceremony, and that is was a great artifice.

The eternal problem with history is that, in most cases, it isn’t realised how important it was until there is little left to preserve. The fact of the matter is that history begins now, and is being created in any number of ways, both small and great, every instance of our existence. As a professional medievalist I am keenly aware of this. One of the most important Viking textile finds consigned to being pitch soaked caulking in between the planks of a longship ober 1100 years ago, for example.

What may seem trivial today will be thought of as significant in the future. A television guide. A piece of art created by an Australian Taxation Office employee on the weekend may capture the zeitgeist of the times poignantly.

There is a narrrative approach to history, the photojournalistic/journalistic modes of recording which equates to realism in art theory, and the interpretive approach, that bears more semblance to a more abstract mode of communicating the feeling of a time rather than the events. I see both amply represented here on RedBubble. For a lot less than $150m the various galleries could ask permission for artists here to make their work available in a database of contemporary works, and pay a commission/royalty/use fee if the work is printed or exhibited. You could buy a lot of 20’”x 30” prints from here for the sort of mooney they are talking about, and there would be enough relevant and technically well executed examples of our cultural, social, chronological and events’ history to fill any gallery in the nation.

If you want to record the life of the real Australia, what better ontological viewpoint than the work of the ordinary Australian from all the diverse backgrounds, all social classes, rural, urban, fringe dwellers, mainstreamers and everyone else?

Bravo Shallay
I came back to add something like that … cos the question was “What are we trying to achieve” not who wants to rant on about art … but you said it so much better than I could come up with!
I have a suggestion for the archives of the future redbubble … that they “Save” only the featured work or work that is favoured “so many times”
Not perfect I know so many lost pieces that is good! But do any of you know the fantastic art of my sister HA Gray??? probably not – she wont sell it or display it or anything yet it blitzes a lot of art I have seen for style and skill and compositional accuracy. How many more artists are lost to time for the same lack of exposure?
And here in RB favouriting tells the artists it is worth keeping and to the other extreme if a piece is completely ignored [or badly critiqued] it should be enough to tell the artist to remove it and either revamp it or forget it and move on.
That’s what this site is all about right?
A sounding board of our work for exposure and critique

God Sorry blathering again :o) ..... [but I was hoping for a desert… ?]
CHOOKAS!!! :o)

I think RB is a wonderful place for anyone no matter how pro or ordinary they are, to be not only a part of a community, but to enjoy the freedom of self expression and to even possibly sell something.

On the other hand, Pilgrim (does that possibly means something)... what you are starting to write here is tantamount to a personal rant that’s bordering on someone either going through a serious mid life crisis, or you are thinking of starting a new religion (maybe you are the messiah) or possibly a new self indulgent political movement.

Either way, it may be popularist pap you’re preaching here, but hopefully some of the other founders of RB will have a talk to you and reign you in. This is not you personal soap box, it’s actually for the people and i’ve seen just a few too many charismatic wankers in my lifetime to be swayed by this sort of rubbish.
What you push as a simplistic and incredibly politically and philosophically naive statement about … rather than give to save lives in Burma or China , is exactly that, simplistic and naive.

If you are so much against what the bourgeois, capitalist pigs do, then slice of 70% of your personal earning from RB (or any other business interests you have) and plough it back into… ‘Save the …..’ fund of your choice.

This is really poor show from such a high profile site… Pilgrim…

RB I have read through so many things on here, But this one takes the cake. Just remember that things come back 3fold*Holly***

Big ticket dinner donationns, (poor) artists donating their art to an auction, and then the person who buys it is the good guy, juried grants, etc. I despise it all but have done it all except the first.
I read many of the comments and found myself thinking.
Odd.. About art and money and death and no money. I like the bubble and can’t help but think how PERFECT it would be if there were perhaps a group where constructive criticism were allowed, HOWEVER, in the play nice mode that has been the standard here. that way those who want advice and to further their knowledge from other’s visual receptors, would be able to do that and give it back as well. Then I read that there are groups here that critique.

Then i started thinking about how I loathe the wealthy, can’t stand galleries and museums and want to scream every time I go in one. On the other hand I sure would like to have enough money to not have to worry all the time and have enjoyed a moment being moved to tears over a painting in a museum and the moments that I have had my art displayed in galleries and one museum and experienced people buying and wanting my art because they love it??? It is so cool when that happens.

Just think someone looking at your work through their eyes it goes to their brain, heart and maybe even their soul. That is what is good about redbubble. Cause a lot of artists look at other artists’ work. That beats everything else in the universe (except for true love). I am babblin and have forgotten whatl I wanted to say. I have found in the few months on red bub one person who occasionally communicates with me and it is fun. (I am not very extroverted.) Oh yeah. Art can be uplifting but huge quantities are made about and from angst. It’s not all pretty and nice and it doesn’t have to be. This is a little scattered.

perhaps you should let them know this site, this is living art from around the world, and all artists here are becoming better artists through all the help and advice, show them what a good job you are doing dawn

Cheap shot speech….maybe you should have a go at those RB artists whose work is currently being displayed in a gallery….and those who aren’t would surely jump at the opportunity to do so…what a crock of sh*t.
I really don’t see why RB is pitting artists vs artists….just another poor propaganda speech in my opinion.

Alex, I guess I understand what you mean. Of course most of us would be happy to have an opportunity to being displayed in a gallery. But the point is… do you think the gallery wants to get 150 million to buy new art by new, talented, but not yet widely recognized artists? I’m afraid not…
I am definitely not against big galleries having “great masters” on display, because they can be a good source of inspiration. But… there are so many (even of those greatest masters) with the comment his talent went largely unrecognized in his lifetime! Maybe we are missing new great masters living in our time because of looking (most of the time) at old masters work?
Yes, I do like the big galleries with all those great masters, but RB is my favorite gallery, too :)

Great comments and understanding about alot of issues! Interesting stuff! Thanks everyone!Sx

Totally agree Martin, well put :)

Wonderfully put!

Lenka,

“But… there are so many (even of those greatest masters) with the comment his talent went largely unrecognized in his lifetime! Maybe we are missing new great masters living in our time because of looking (most of the time) at old masters work?“

And in turn they will get spat on by sites like RB …makes a lot of sense…this is not preaching love of art, this is mixing politics and art ….this is preaching hate….and hate is always much more popular…..

Whole in one Martin!
Well spoken…

Whole in one Martin!
Well spoken…

Absolutely…hmmmm, and somehow the art that is worth sooooo much, is cheapened, by the money, hype and fuss that surrounds it.

Well Put! I Have seen more great art on redbubble than I have in most galleries. I think (at least for me on a personal level) that redbubble is more of a place of inspiration, than a place to sell art. I wish the bubble was around many years ago. I have been more inspired since joining here than I have been in some time. This is a place to showcase your own art, and to view other “real” art for the purpose of enjoyment. Sure most of us would probably “not mind” success, but I believe we are mostly doing it for fun.

No the art itself is not cheapened. This is silly stuff, mixing up the commercial aspects of the artworld with the pieces themselves (a bit like Martin mixing up some sort of leftist politics with art and demeaning “high art” as something besmirched by the monied establishment, while elevating unheralded “pure” art of the Red Bubble proletariat to something “pure” and expressive of a “higher purpose”! sigh…

What has poor old Van Gogh, for example, got to do with the bucks his stuff goes for now? Because he is now famous and ‘mainsteam’, and hyped, and his obscure pieces chased by speculators who care not at all for art but care a lot for making a buck, why does that in any way cheapen or demean his BLOODY BRILLIANT art? It just doesn’t.

ditto aspectsoftmk,
Thanks martin !

Awesome!

My mum always said variety is the spice of life. I have loved museums and galleries and now love RB.
Whose to say RB won’t influence people involved with the galleries?
I say power to all art.

here here, plus our troops serving in war, what about them?

$150 million to purchase new art is wonderful news and I hope the value of great art is discussed in galleries, boardrooms, schools and lounge rooms across Australia.

Well said, Martin.

This is a good thing, art should be accessible to all and therefore be shown in museums instead of having them bought and kept in private collections.

My son is showing interest in photography and art and loves to visit museums and any historical places (as long as he can get there, skateboarding :) ). He enjoys looking at artwork and computer generated images on red bubble but would he spend as much time “taking in” art or history when online as he did at the Louvres?
I don’t think so.

Great art is reflective of culture and the way we live our lives, in your face and questioning and disturbing, sometimes even sublime and spiritually uplifting as you say. Unfortunately artists cannot always be selective about who buys the work and the high art market is at the tacky end of capitalism servicing the ego’s of the wealthy, big corporations, private companies and those seeking tax reductions or investment opportunities. This has nothing to do with the artist who created the work. A real artist would not compromise the integrity of their work for money anyway.

Galleries on the other hand preserve and conserve the greatest works that have withstood the test of time and have an important place in the continuing story of art, technically, intellectually or otherwise. The work (at the NGV) belongs to the people and can be seen by the people in the exhibition spaces. What good was Van Gogh’s Irises in the possession of an entrepreneur like Alan Bond hidden away in a mansion? If the rich want to put their money into preserving our culture by purchasing art and they choose to have it properly housed in a Gallery so everyone can see it, I for one would not stop them. What the philanthropists choose to do with their money is up to them.

I full heartedly agree with hotbeestees and Anne Staub’s comments. I’ve also noticed that there seems to be a great deal of judgment of what makes an artist an actual artist going on. Sort of like what makes a Christian a Christian. It’s funny…I stopped being a Fundamentalist in my 20’s and thought the art community would be different yet I find many similarities of judgment, anger, us/them’ism and feeling the right to define what is “real” and “right” going on when it comes to how an artist (or someone who may think they are an artist) conducts themself. God help me if my photos are too pretty or commercial – I’m selling out – I must not be a “real” artist. Forgive me if I haven’t spent 4 years in art school and then studied under a master. Forgive me for having some rich friends who donate time and money to non-profit agencies. For all these things, I cannot call myself an artist – I simply take pretty photos. And, Lord, please forgive the museum for spending so much money to get the expensive, beautiful, historical art made by the dead people who thought they were artists from the rich people so everyone can see it. Thank You, though, for the times that my little boy has been able to see all that beautiful artwork because he has really enjoyed it… and so have I.

jenndes, beautifully said! Ditto!

Although on one level I question why somebody would give to acquire multi-million dollar art pieces rather than give to save lives in Burma or China.‘
That´s because every person has other priorities in live.
That one person would perhaps never give money to save lives, and would keep all the money for himself, if there was no art he could buy. Future generations may despise him for not helping other people, but they still will admire the art he saved with his money.
Or there would be a person who does give money to help the living, but gives money for art as well to enable future generations to see such art.
Remember that art is always a luxury- when you struggle for survival, you will find neither time nor money for art.
Nor will you find sponsoring and conservation of art without money. How much big art would not exist had not a very rich (and maybe very egoistic) person in the past times decided to spent money on this art? How much big art would have fallen into oblivion, or lay in rotten pieces, had there not been a rich man or a museum able to pay big money for art?
As for saving lives at Burma or China, if we all give a small amount of money, we can save as many lives (or even more) as when one man gives a big amount of money- so what are you waiting for?

Amen, Machendel, Amen! Much of Michelangelo’s and many other incredible artists’ work were commissioned. If I did not have the money to buy my camera I would not be able to take the level of photos I do. There are even better ones taken with more expensive equipment. Should all artists forsake spending their money on their art and instead give it to the poor and needy? Do not get me wrong, I donate at least $1000 per year to charitable, well deserving causes, but I also value art and realize it is does not come without a price. Take the log our of your own eye before removing the speck from your brother/sister’s eye. Let us start with our own lives and see what difference we can make for those in need. How much does RB donate to those in need – whether it be in China, Australia or elsewhere? Whether it be $5 or $5 Million – the motive of the heart is what matters.

Amen, Machendel, I think things are getting harder and harder for alot of people, My heart goes out to the millions, I have such a hard time turning on the news, here in the US and over seas, and there are so many going without food and a home. I love art, but my first choice is to feed my children——Holly

I rather give a Million smiles upon the viewers and an impactful impression of Peace, Joy, or simple inspiration for free, than a pompous parade and a filthy amount of money that would serve to tickle my pride and endanger my humility. I appreciate the community thing, I find much more value in the sense of being connected with people who are struggling to express, or striving to relate, I feel honored to be a part of a group who like to “keep it real” in the sense of world events, and Human suffering throughout the planet.
I would love to make some money from the purchase of Prints, or Selling Exclusive rights to a Photograph. All this none sense of “Great art” what does that really mean….
What about the thousands of North American Natives who wander Vanquished giving their art away for a meager few dollars, in hopes that they can get their next fix, and yet the Government chooses to spend “Our” Taxes on Funding a War in another Country That really has not realistic bearing anything but control. 150 000 000 Dollars would be better spent in aiding the poor, or the afflicted. Who I am to Judge where some one aught to put their wealth, and really I struggle to get by, but I definitely would not want to be apart of some impersonal whoop up that once all over and the dust has settled, I still go hungry standing outside some Museum not able to afford admission to see my own art even.

I like: Great art is all about telling .That is why I’m still hooked on RedBubble and why it’s the first thing I look at, in the morning.

The art is uplifting, raises the tone of society and you get to go to really good dinners and meet really important people.

Are you saying this from the perspective of someone on the outside looking in or looking out?
Because looking at Wikipedia, i’d guess you’d have the chance to go to quite a few dinners with influential people and possibly be a strong minded philanthropist as well.
Heck… Simon Baker, CEO of RealEstate.com.au, who’s also a non executive director here at RB is probably just like your self, a lover of art for the common man, you guys would never be tared with the brush of making money out of anything too seriously would you?

Of course, you could just be a really a kind generous and gentle soul who wishes to just see the good things of life srpaad through a site such as RB.

”... while rich businessmen snap up Van Goghs for the price of a hospital wing…” (Del Amitri).

Just as well about the fancy dinners…I’ve nothing to wear, and I’m not so good in schmancy company. It’s the tattoos I think….

Anyhoo…I agree totally. The area I live in now USED to be a cool little artist’s colony…now it’s 30 room houses for 2 person families and $50,000 oil paintings for a parlor no one’s allowed in anyway…

...and my vote’s for kind and generous soul…..:D

Wow! Emotions run high in this area. The money the wealthy (those filthy people LOL) give to museums, actually help to make art accessable to those who cannot otherwise afford to possibly see it. Art does need to be preserved in order to tell the story of a culture to future generations. Imagine if all the art from times past did not have a patron. Or if in times of war and hardship, people decided to just burn paintings for firewood-more practical. And there is always a war or hardtimes somewhere. Art would not survive-it would be relegated to non essential status and none of us would be here.

I think Jenndes has made a good argument for both sides. Both philanthopic needs can be met and can actually meet. Art and service to others.

Art can be respected and preserved on all levels while meeting the needs of the poor or sick etc….(although, I will say that no matter how much money you throw at the needs of the poor etc…some countries will thwart the efforts to help those in need-UN sex for food debacle, cruel governments diverting funds for their own purposes….) But still, we can all try.

How do I try? I sponser a child in India for starters. I work for a non profit where I donated a matted, framed photo of mine, which I had RB frame and matt thereby giving back to the RB pocket book. People with the money to spend, bought tickets to the silent auction event and bid on my work. It was bought and the money went to charity. I got some recognition for my photography. The circle of life! Who here would not sell their art work for any price? I gladly sell and if I know someone that can’t afford to pay, I give for free.

I welcome and love museums. The wealthy people who give to them, I am sure finance other charities as well as paying higher tax rates at least in the US and there by sponser much more than they are given credit for. RB is also a terrific place to find art. It all fits!!!! And it’s all good! One is not better than the other and without the recognition of art in society, the uplifting it gets from museums-no one would care what we all are doing.

Ann

I’ve been thinking. Imagine we could only experience art and the art community in front of our PC’s, if there were no museums or galleries. We are separate from actual human contact. We do not hear children’s and adult’s voices and expressions as they experience the art around them. They do not hear or see our responses. We cannot see the sculpture, bones, pottery with our own eyes. Some may not miss this, but I know I would…greatly.

They call me the IT guru at work (even though it’s not my job) and I adore technology. But still I know there is no replacement for my everyday, personal, face-to-face social relationships. The Internet has indeed made this a small world and in a large way helped us understand each other better. But I hope we do not lose sight of the importance of face-to-face community, of the real-life, in personal experience. In NY state we have many museums which range in price from an optional donation of any amount (I usually give $2 per person) to $20. This seems quite affordable to me – especially the donation. I also know that not all museums are the same. Some may be more elitist than others.

Would we forsake, though, an artist for making a decent living at what he/she loves just because we ourselves have not made that same success? If I hear of an artist selling their art for a large sum of money I do not hate them for it. I hope more artists find their success. If I know of a rich person who owns expensive artwork and sells it to a museum I do not hate them for it. I’m thankful they’re willing to part with it. For all I know they’ve given large portions of $ to charities that I know nothing about.

To compare museums to RB is to compare apples to oranges. They serve vastly different purposes and serve different audiences – at least at this point. When’s the last time you saw people leaving comments below a piece of artwork at a museum on what they thought of the art? (Hey, did I just come up w. a new marketing idea for the MET?) As I sit here in my messy little office in front of my PC there is no feeling of grandeur; I cannot hear others around me and they cannot hear me. The experiences are different but I get something important from both and would not want to give up either.

I couldn’t agree with you more martin about the fancy dinner stuff and all, the art itself is sadly becoming irrelevent, in a lot of art cultures.

Hey, who said we can’t have fancy dinners ;) When I’m in Melb I’ll look u up ;)
Yeah this is a art community, very cool, let’s keep it going :)

Art is relative each and every respective individual. Thank you Red Bubble for allowing us to show our “Great Art” ... lol – Mark

What about Redbubble sponsoring a virtual wall at the museum?
Any sales linked to that site could be donated a chosen charity…

Martin, maybe it’s time to put your smoked salmon blini down and put your money where your mouth is instead…....why doesn’t RB openly supports charities then ?...maybe offer to give 10% of all earnings to charity….and let members choose which charity it is going to….

Hey Martin great comments, I’d really love to wear the quote on a T-shirt do you mind if i design something?
I’m having this same argument with Uni Lecturers at the moment!
Keep up the great work
Bel

This is a brilliant discussion, and exactly what I love about Red Bubble. I admire the statement, “Great art is a blunt weapon.” So true and to the point.

Joseph Beuys said that everybody is an artist, and he has also said that, on the negative side, art is often isolated, elusive – very ivory tower-like. This restricted idea of culture makes museums weak and isolated.

Thanks for this thought, Pilgrim.

Hey Jen,
Great thoughts I do agree with you a life without museums would be pretty dull.
I don’t begrudge anyone a chance to make a living either.
I just think that sometimes people are put off because they look at these works and think I could never be this good so they give up on art.
I really believe in the quote.
I think it can be applied to all aspects of life.
Wouldn’t it be a boring world if it was only the great artists that were encouraged to paint, shoot or produce their work. what about the treasured first finger paintings?
Even the greats had to start somewhere!
Bel

We all, to some extent, think our particular bent in art is great. Thank you RB for allowing us to show some of it to others. And also thanks for the new friends that I, and many others, have made through the RB site.

So true! If the National Gallery ask the wealthy do donate money so the gallery can buy “great art” to uplift society….who´s uplifted? The wealthy, the gallery or the small group of people that´s visiting the gallery?

Yes! God Bless! You have accomplished your goal with this redbubbler….......I had barely begun to paint when I joined on here and I have gotten so much encouragement and connected with so many genuine people it FEELS like a family. I paint more and experiment more partly because of the environment you have created here! Thank you, again and again!!
P.S. – I tell everybody about this website! and always get good feedback.

hope you let these guys know we are here from all over the world

Very well said. The prices some of the (mostly nice) pictures fetch nowadays of artists that virtually starved to death are obscene and show that this in not really about art. The amazing art you can see on RB is the real show in town and it is available to everybody without standing in a line for hours in the sun and buying expensive tickets (just back from Paris)