Jo O'Brien

what she said.. :)

Totally agree Jo!!!!

Good advice and well written, great work Jo.

So … when are you joining the RB team ?

Yep, agree too.

Not just you’re opinion, agree with everything you said.

Hey Jo :) I agree with most of what you say except the I made a sale part. I will always post a thank you when I make a sale, not to show off that I made a sale, but to THANK the person or people that bought my work. I know this can become monotonous to those that get a feed of my JE’s … but I feel if someone buys my work, they deserve a personal thank you from myself for doing that. Using my JE’s ensures they see that … sometimes I have no idea who bought it. I sorta don’t know any other way to do that? I won’t just say nothing though.

@ sjem – why would they sign me up when I do it all for free?

Go Jo, summed it up nicely.

Absolutely spot on Jo.

Can I make 1 suggestion, thanks I will – in the section Telling us about Every Single Sale you make there should be an additional clause prohibiting those commenting on the I made a sale post how great it felt when they themselves made there first , second whatever sale. Just a plain old congrats will do.

(applause) Hear, hear!

I hear what your saying.

i don’t think i’ve ever faved a blog before. you should feel special this is my first :D

totally agree with you on everything

Totally agree, especially with the point about “happy snaps”. I know it can be a fine line but occasionally there are things posted which obviously should not be classed as “art”.

What about adding sales thanks to the image comments? If they really like it and have bought one, surely they are likely to go for another look? And it may encourage them to rave about how great it is when they receive it in front of your potential buyers- how fantastic would it be to have a “wow, I recieved a print of this today and it looks awesome” right next to that “buy” button for the next person to be convinced they want one??

I am not sure what you mean regarding repeating comments on photos. I often write “great Photo” as a comment and I think this is fine. I may not have the experience as some others to describe what it is I like about some photos…....but I like them. I hope this is not what you are implying.
I hope the rant made you feel better.
Rob

Ditto Jo particularly the repetitive art bit, that really shits me, so much so that I usually don’t look at any of them. The family/ holiday snapshots also shit me, reduces the quality of RB as a whole and turns off potential buyers who couldn’t be bothered wading through all the rubish!

yay for ranting… yay for conversation and goddam I am adding this to my favourites… great job.

@ Rob – I’m refering to people who write a “default” image and then copy paste it onto a bunch of stuff just to get attention.

Yep, I’m with you Jo. Well said!!

@ Rob, Sorry, I meant a “default comment“

I’d also add that you can display pictures from your Flickr site to the forums here so there’s actually no need to upload happy snaps here at all!

I can understand Craig S. about sales – I don’t say thank you under someone’s comment on my photo to boost popularity, I do it because I’m genuinely glad that someone has dropped by and expressed an opinion. The same with sales. But I do agree that it can get frustrating when you look at the recent writings bit and all you see is “Sale!!!” It would be nice to filter that out. Perhaps a forum sticky as somewhere to post your gratitude?

Btw, what are you doing this weekend? ;-P

Yesssss Jo! I know we’ve had chats about this in realtime, and I mentioned a DECLARATION OF WAR I was writing, so I may as well put some of the points in here with yours because we’re on the same page with it.

Flooding Activity Monitors with Repetitive Art
People who flood get removed from my watchlist, 100 baskets of bread rolls does not constitute a buffet, it’s filler. Stick to the main course.

Irrelevant Comments
If you wanna have a conversation, get a room – a chat room. Or join Facebook like the rest of us.

Whinging About Everything
Jo’s right, tell the people that can do something about it

Telling Us About Every Single Sale You Make
Sheesh, get a room and spank yerself…

Uploading Happy Snaps
Yes your kids are cute. Put your happy snaps on Flikr unless there’s something more interesting about it other than little Johnny or Janie’s nose dribble.

Baby pictures are cute, but those temporary studios in shopping malls with all the props like buckets, fluffy toys and flowers do them too. See ‘Hallmark’

Cute puppies and pussycats Don’t they do the darndest things? Also see ‘Hallmark’

Blatant Self Promotion
Ever thought of asking before you hitch you star to someone else’s?

Not Editing Forum Posts
I sometimes wish I had a remote control for my life so I can rewind and fix my mistakes. Guess what? You have one for forum posts!

Comments That Detract From The Sale Of Artworks
Do you go in a shop to try on clothes and dribble on them?

Journal Entries Being Catagorised As Writing
You flossed your toes today? Wow!

And…
Popularity is not quality
Quality is not common
And the law of averages dictates averages.

Disclaimer
If you’ve done any of these things then I apologise, I’m just venting along with Jo. Or if you’re like me, you think haven’t done any of these things, but you may have done some of these things – you’re in denial. And if you deny that you’re in denial, then where are you?

Fuck it – I’m confused, and sort of sorry until next time.

@ Durotriges – HA HA HA. I’ve got three photo shoots and a load of laundry to do this weekend for your information! Love the sarcasm.

Yeah that all works for me Jo. I like that it is not My space etc. Go Jo! Vote Jo! :0)

Seriously…..............It did need to be said.

Oh Chris you funny funny man. I’m going to wet myself laughing!

Well said Jen, I so agree with everthing your saying.

Where’s that edit function…

I made spelling mistakes.

@ Durotriges – I like your idea about a thankyou sales sticky. I can make one in the Soapbox Forum. Do you think people will actually use it?

Much and all as I’d love to take you to task on this Jo, I can’t find fault. Damn it. Well, maybe I agree with Craig S. also, but that’s about it.

yeah agree with most – the happy snap part -I upload privately anything that I want to get RB’d I think this is a great option not sure everyone knows about it though ?

You forgot dates on photographs.

BTW If the rain clears tomorrow I’m gonna get 10 more shots of my local jetty…........I’ll make sure the sun’s in a different position though :-)

kev

@ Photobloke – Yeah, I can understand wanting to thank people for sales. Is it to much to ask waiting until there have been a handful of them and thanking in batches? I see one a day at the moment AND they are starting to invade the forums.

Ditto Chris, even though I am guilty of some of these things :-(
Vote One Chris for PM!!!!
And Jo is right you are a very funny man.

As with everything IMO, the black and white stance is overly regimented, and detracts greatly from being spontaneous and creative…

Personally, I’ve never read a negative comment to a person’s post; I have however seen a very click type mentality going on, making comments to shot after shot of gratuitous naked shots…a particular gripe of mine…

Those that post happy snaps will soon learn to stop as they will find little to zero comments being made….however in saying that, art is in the eye of the beholder….not all great photographers produce 100% artistic images…

As for personal banter, there probably is not a place for it on RB but it will happen from time to time…as we are by nature social beings.

Potential buyers of artwork are not going to pass over a piece of art because there is an exchange of chit chat…

If you happen to have a person on your watchlist that spends more time uploading images than actually caring about the content of their images, you can remove them…

As for comments, I have no photography background, therefore, I lack certain photography terminology, I do however, know what I like and dislike, so my comments tend to express the impact that has been made on me….
You have to be careful not to turn this site into an elitist one that’s entry is by credentials rather than a love of beauty and art…

@ LisaG – You are the voice of reason amongst our “rantiness”. Thank You.

I do agree, but am almost scared that I’m guilty of something in there, somewhere. ;)

@ Jo – I don’t see why not. Given enough publicity and a few kneecappings for those who don’t use it. You could always get rid of it if no-one likes it, I suppose?

Jo, re posting “thank you’s” as journals/blogs, and your suggestion that people do this under the image comments instead, there has been an awful of whinging about people doing it that way as well. I’d suggest that if you see a “thank you” journal, don’t open it. No one is forced to read anything they don’t want to read. Unfortunately this just isn’t a perfect world, and there will always be things we want to change or control and can’t. Is it really worth stressing over? Relax…......there are far worse things in life to be concerned about. Eat chocolate instead, or at least smell it. I’ve been told it releases “happy”, de-stressing hormones. But tell me when you’ve got chocolate because I’ll be right on over!

@ NervousNellie – I’m probably guilty of some of it too- namely the whinging bit. Still, It’s good to get it out in the open!

@ Whirligig – yummmmy chocolate. Yes I like your idea muchly. But the practice still gets me cranky every now and then when there are a lot fo them. I try to ignore them but it’s kind of like telemarketing. I can hang up but it would be better if they just didn’t call.
And I do understand that people like to thank others.

Very well written Jo. I am sure everyone on this page is guilty of a few of those things and there are changes that need to be made. I think its incredible that you took the time to write it all down. Maybe it will open an eye somewhere.
The sales thing is a kind of akward because you do want to thank the person who bought your work. But on the other hand if you don’t post it you may offend someone.
Its really kind of a akward deal the way its set up.

wow, I agree with almost everything said here – including Lisa and no, I don’t think that is paradoxical. I think everything in degrees.

where’s my creepy emails :(

Jo and people, {my 2 cents}

I have really enjoyed my time here and love talking to all sorts of people. I know some of my photos could be classed as happy snaps, and I know sometimes I do upload too many at a time. {_sorry _}

Happy snaps, yeah maybe there is a lot of works that will never be sold, are they all happy snaps? Maybe!
I really love seeing new photographers posting their works and what they have done. I would hate to see them being scared to post cause they think it not good enough.

@ Dennis – Of course you are all right. I am only giving you half of the argument here. There are always exceptions to every rule and there are always shades of grey. And I too would hate for people to not upload something that they consider art for any reason.

Well shoot little lady, most of my shots are holiday snaps

hehehehe

haha Mel…..

@ Jo. True. Point conceded.
But…but…but…I DID IT TWICE!! How can I now pretend to be holier? Can we just put it down to the fact I was a newbie and pretend it didn’t happen? It has been 2 months since my last confession.

@ Lisa. If Mark is not listening: You do know how beautiful you are I hope. If Mark is listening: I meant, damn shame about the Bombers huh?

@ Jo+1
The best thing about this thread Jo is that some people will now read it and get the idea without being offended. I’m pretty sure there is an “official” comment somewhere on the site suggesting that RedBubble is for “The Best %age” of our work but other than that the guidance is limited (and considering the sites relative infancy, perhaps wisely so) so thanks heaps for your effort.

@ PhotoBloke – awwwww! Thank you. I kind of hope it will get people thinking a bit.

And I made a sticky in the SoapBox forum if anyone wants to use it for thanking buyers. But I wont cry or anything if they don’t :)

Well said, i think we can mall be a little guilty of some of the point’s you have made occasionally, but i agree largly with your outlook and as redbubble grows we seem to see more of offences you describe, good on you for having the ball’s to say how you feel =)

I applaud your stance Jo as I
1. laugh nervously and take down those 15 photos I took of that damn shell I thought was just so exceptional
2. wish I hadn’t drawn an analogy between my footy team’s ailing fortunes and the seaside sunset I was meant to be writing about
3. whinged about the fact that a puppy I was puppy sitting today ate my 3 year old goldfish called Hirdy (ironic)
4. spent that hour thanking myself and my dog for buying the card I made of my niece’s christening
5. uploaded all those shots of me and my now dead gold fish kicking back and having a grand old chat in the backyard (now I know why he never contributed)
6. sent all those clandestine smutty emails to Chris subliminaly suggesting he bare his bum for me so I would have nice Christmas cards to send this year
7. talked about my SET OF FOUR CHILDREN’S BOOKS NOW AVAILABLE FOR $20
8. bitched about Jessicca Tremps photos ‘cos they’re so bloody good
9. categorised this rant as something akin to Shakespeare and
10. forgot to edit this post.

I will add one more comment as it’s kinda been bugging me – it’s not the CONTENT that makes the photo boring, so there’s no need to heap scorn at baby, flower and pet photos. It’s how they took it. There are some brilliant photos of kids on here – including the one by Nancy Coyle – so babies/kids by default doesn’t make it bad, flower macros can be stunning, and dog photos don’t have to be “Fido sits on the couch”.

Other than that I agree, again, heh.

Hehehe Melinda. I seem to be the nakedest guy on here now thanks to that (and red wine)...

And Natalie, it’s true, there are some good baby/kid pics on here (I know the Nancy Coyle one you mention, it is good), they get lost in a flood of happy snaps and it degrades the genre.

And Andrew, I’ll run for PM after I’ve been to a strip club in New York…

I think you’ve just nicely summed up half the current forum threads, quite nicely!

@ Natalie – good point. I see some absolutely amazing child and animal photos on here. It’s not really fair to throw them all into the same basket.

Oops, this is all starting to sound a bit too elitist for me, and I’m starting to feel rather uncomfortable and out of place now. I hate that people should make others feel guilty about who they are, what they do and how they express what they want to in journals and in their photos. Sorry folks, I don’t want to offend, but that’s just how I feel.

Yes Jo, you have made many great points there. I also think saying thank you to the buyer on the actual image is a better idea than putting it in a blog.

@ Whirligig – Fair comment. I think ultimately people will do what they want to do regardless of what one journal entry might say. I’d hardly expect it to have a lasting impact, just like all the other journal entries floating around out there complaining about all sorts of stuff. As I stated a few times. It’s just one opinion on display here and people are welcome to disagree or completely ignore it. And going by the comments so far, I think it’s pretty clear that people do disagree and I think that’s great. It;d just be boring on here if we all thought the same.

Even though I too am probably guilty of a few things mentioned i agree with Jo whole heartedly.

Jo-
thank you so much for writing out all these points in such a clear way.
My english would have never been that good in order to do so.
I agree with every single point…..it’s good to have you here.

another idea guys for the thank you’s, Michman had a great idea of just having one blog for the thank you’s and he just add’s a comment to that with the picture everytime someone buys something rather than starting a new blog again…it’s clearly viewable and doesn’t come up in everyone’s watchlist time and time again…i think it’s a fantastic solution…just a thought

The following is to be taken as a JOKE!!!

Jo O’Brien’s new title:
Red Bubble Nazi!

This bit isn’t a joke:

It’s this sort of discussion that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside….
We are a group of thinkers and most of us have The Bubble at heart and want to improve it! If we keep doing what we are doing, RB will continue to evolve into something quite spectacular…..

Good on us I say!

Ditto Jo, having only been here a few weeks and still settling ito the community you have included all that in my opinion needs to be rectified, having also read some of the entries in Kathleens blog “THE ACADEMICS OF ART and the AMATEUR PERSPECTIVE” and what went before I feel that we are about to see the unleashing of www3 or is it 4?

For a community of artists/photographers both professional and amateur who seriously want to promote their work and sell it surely there must be strict rules re quality of work and it’s presentation. What I find annoying as a buyer perusing the site is the number of “untitled” works displayed by individuals, who wants to buy anything that will be “untitled by Shay Larkin” written under the work?

Yeah, I understand what you’re saying, Jo, and I know everyone feels annoyed by things at time, but I’ve been reading so many of these journals lately (because I’m curious by nature and I’m a natural listener/sounding board, and I like to know how people feel and what they are thinking). Now suddenly I’ve just become really depressed about it all and totally lack any interest in being creative and putting work up. I’m just one of those silly, sensitive people who soaks up the vibes around me too easily. It’s nobody’s fault but my own, I know, so I guess the answer to that one is to keep my sticky beak out of the journals. It’s the judgemental thing where we put ourselves above others that bothers me. I like to think we could encourage rather than reject.

and from high upon the bubble came Jo with the ten bubblements – like the ten commandments but we’ll tend to be more careful of the bubblements.

...now I’m off to covet thy neighbors wife and bear false witness

Very well put together Jo.

This has been a great discussion, I wouldn’t want anyone to think that my comments are meant in any malicious way, and also wouldn’t want it to become another debate about elitism vs populism, as that is an aesthetic debate as well as a social one and way more complex. I’m sure we’ve all been guilty of some of these things at some stage (I know I have), and if I had kids or pets I’d probably be damn proud of them too.

one question…..how does it work with the blog entries on the home-page?
I think it’s important that this one shows up there. Are blog entries chosen by RB?

what if I post a pic of sassy in this journal?

Very well put Jo. Should be a “user agreement” (ha ha).

I find it fascinating that all contributors to this thread have been guilty at one point or another to one or all of the “commandments”....

@ Whirligig – I didn’t realise that this journal entry was timed to coincide with other similar journal entries. With that in mind I can totally understand that there might be an overwhelming negativity floating around now that I have accidentally added to. And that is a really good point about encouraging rather than rejecting. Maybe the next step after all this is to ask the question- How do we promote an inclusive creative environment on RedBubble?

@ Chris – I definately think on the whole most people realise that this whole discussion is focussed on extremes and generalisations.

@ Ben – Whoever is on Homepage Duty amongst the RedBubble elves chooses what goes up on the Homepage.

@ Daijiro Kato – HAHAHA. See. I am guilty of it- I’ve got a blasted picture of my pet cat up on here!

@ Lisa – OH GOSH NO!!! This is NOT suppose to be commandments of any sort. But let’s face it. We’re a creative community and by nature that makes everything flexible, subjective, interpretive and relative. And in my opinion, there should not be restrictive rules to make people behave. That’s why I like journals and the forums- it opens a discussion and rasies awareness without imposing restrictions on people.

so how many watchers u got Jo??...since your flexing your…um…

Jo et al, I agree with most of what has been said. However…...everyone who is in my watchlist is there because I put them there. I put them there because I am attracted to or inspired by their work. Now, there are one or two who seem to have nothing else to do but upload scores and scores of photos in one hit. So I just use the little rolly thing on my mouse to bypass them and go straight for the comments added. We are in control of how we choose to use our Activity page so I don’t really see that as a problem. Repeat offenders can easily be deleted from your watchlist.

I do fear that my beloved RB is degenerating into a receptacle not only for “happy snaps” but also for abusive verbal gymnastics that go on and on and on and on and on, ad nauseum. People venting and ranting (not referring to this rant Jo….you’ve pretty much summed up how I and others obviously were feeling anyway) just for the sake of publicity it would seem.

On a really sour note, I was pretty disgusted to see an award recipient of the recent comp subjected to the most vitriolic abuse. The picture may not have been that person’s cup of tea but nothing warrants this kind of response (which btw was also an attack on the judges. ) This is one of the main reasons why I think the comments should not be made viewable to the public. (I’ve said this in another forum somewhere…don’t ask me to find it!!). It should be reserved for members only. Please, please bring this functionality in RB.

Hmmm….. I could go on and on but then I run the risk of being guilty of some of the things I’m now complaining about so I’ll just shut up now.

Good on you Jo, for airing your opinions and let’s hope that the right people read this blog and not just the one’s who have you in their watchlist.

x

thingy.

I’m probably guilty of all of them. 10 out of 10 AT LAST! My parents will be so proud.

Jo, you should be an ambassador! You’re really lovely, and extremely mature in the way you handle things…...you should be voted in as the “go-between” for negotiations. Ten out of ten from me. Cheers (Elaine, alias Whirligig).

@ LB – Not that many. Not so long ago the top ten most watched members were listed in BubbleWrap- you will note that I was not in that list.

Oh I agree with you Jo, those forums (journals/forums) are the appropriate space to have this discussion….
I dislike the idea we shall become polarised on this issue, don’t misunderstand me Jo, I see merit and intelligence to what you’ve voiced…in a clinical sense, then there is an artistic abstract sense….which is subjective and blurred…

The thought of offending someone, goes against my grain…so I shall champion that cause with diligence. As others have pointed out, RB is new and as such the passion and excitement it drives can’t be constrained in the true sense, it will evolve naturally…

I hope I’m making sense..

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, Jo O’Brien. This is a warmer, cuddlier version of my blog.

Stands and applauds
Very well written Jo I think you’re spot on.
You made me realize with your Comments That Detract From The Sale Of Artworks that I am guilty of this one. While my comments were made with the best of intentions, and only because I really liked the art in question, I hadn’t thought of it that way, namely as a deterrent to sales, and who doesn’t like those? From now on I shall save any constructive criticism for those that expressly ask for it, either in the Critique Forum or in their profile.
So a big thank you Jo is in order. THANK YOU JO
I think many others will appreciate and benefit from this post, by the way, love the Disclaimer.

@ Elaine (so that’s what you’re name is!) – Thank You. That means a hell of a lot to me.

I agree about the happy snap thing and the multiple shots of the same thing. One boring subject isn’t going to look any better in 20 different angles! :P

And do we really need to see photos of peoples pets, or kids? Sure these people might want to buy these shots for themselves, but I doubt anyone else does!?
I guess their family and friends might want to purchase items though, maybe instead of just having a “Private view” mode, why not have a “Family and friends” only mode where members can choose who can view certain pieces of artwork.

I also don’t like those who self promote themselves in the artwork comments and replies, Its just plain rude and wrong!

I was just about to say have you seen DrayeArt’s Version Jo – and yes this is a much fluffier version lol – but all the same it seems to be a hot topic at the moment all side’s have valid point’s – there seems to be quite a divide – looks like we will all have to agree to disagree hey lol!!!

Do you really think she’s imitating you DrayeArt?

oh mi god-I haven’t read all the responses, but it’s nice to see someone sum everything in a neat tidy bullet form. I’m a bit over all the whinging, and reckon it’d be nice to have some more appreciation-like how good is to have an artist site.

I, erm, haven’t even really checked out flickr and was a bit over myspace before it started…RB is just so EASY! I’ve been excited about it for months now it seems.

some stuff is easy to master technically…some stuff is not-like links in journal entries, or (what you were talking about above)

and I got the impression RB staff love hearing about our sales-they’re all posted on the home page!!!

and erm, yeah, I think I just posted some ‘blog kinda stuff’ on the writing page.

and, oh no, I’ve given comment where comment unasked for, like a bloody know it all once or twice…now I think it’s time to go to bed…thanks for the late night reading. It was fun!

@ EOS20 – You might have a good idea there. Perhaps stick it in the forums and see what reaction it gets.

@ Withering Moon, Melinda etc. – I actually haven’t read any other journal entires on this topic. I didn’t realise I was so unoriginal until people started mentioning them here. I’ll have to go and look.

I don’t doubt you at all.

Not unoriginal – more like great minds think alike lol!!!

as I mentioned in another thread it’s all about information.
If RB would add some of the most important points on
the upload page it’s going to change quite a bit, I think.
If you saw these points each time you’re about to upload something
many would change their behaviour in my opinion.

hey jo! great rant.. agree with you completlyi might be guilty of one or two so i’ll keep quiet about that. just one thnig the editing of posts in forums.. why does it matter if people dont edit them?.. i’m not bothered really, i’d just never come across that point before. so i’ll try to make my spelling perfect for now but i can’t promise anything :p

Hi Jo. Actually, this isn’t much of a rant at all, but good “down to earth” common sense. I’ll make this as a sticky in the Welcome forum and see how we go (if you don’t mind).

It’s great someone was able to outlay some guidelines objectively.

This is an awesome photo… Lovely capture!!! ; )

@ Claire – I basically live in the forums so maybe I see more of this. But I often come across a series of 4 of 5 posts in a row while someone tries to get a link to work, when they could have just edited the original post. It takes up a lot of room and can detract from the original conversation. It’s also just good for people to know they can hide their typos etc. with a quick edit.

@ kseriphyn – go for it.

@ Lachlan Kent – You’ve got it nailed!

Favorited! Should be a sticky some where. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

P.S. You may want to add a link up top to the “thanks” thread in the forum. Just a thought…..

Good idea. Doing it now.

Jo, I agree with everything you said apart from the sale thing, however, wouldn’t it be cool if RB could just drop in a line ‘Gordon made a new sale’ in the activity list if ‘Gordon’ was on it?

I also think that RB should do a private email system. also that we should not put our email addresses on the bio page, but have a button that lets viewers send us a message.

@ Gordon – I totally understand the sentiment attached to thanking your buyers. And I certainly agree with you on getting a private messaging system in place. Might filter out some of my weirdo mail!

Well, I’m far to new to RB to be held accountable to any of the above atrocities….!! Innocent until proven guilty.

However, I do agree with what your saying, this site is clearly for people to publish their art or rather share it with us lucky bubble makers (as it is us, that makes the site, is it not?).

It is not a “social networking site” get a life, or rather get a friend and get out more, and on that subject, getting friends by making “certain” comments on peoples work….cheap and creepy and I hope treated with the contempt it deserves.

As for self promotion, everybody has “blown their own trumpet” at some point, I suppose, but to do this repeatedly, isn’t that what myspace is for…?

I had no idea I had such strong feelings Jo, thank you for making realise this. Hopefully you have caught me at a young enough bubble age not to go down what sounds such a tortuous and treacherous road…..

Please be my guiding like Jo, I’ll give you my “private contact details” even my shoe size….(oh sh!t I’ve gone and commited an O’Brien crime haven’t I ?!

I’ve posted the idea on the forum. Heres the link:

Forum Topic

Nice to see a lighthearted response to this simonj!

I agree wholeheartedly with everything you’ve said Jo.

I promise that I will make one blog if I ever sell anything …
and I saw your note about “thank yous” in comments not adding as views anymore so I will can keep saying thank you to the people who take time to look at and comment on my images!!

RB has so much potential – the founders and contributors have seen to that – I would hate it to become another Flickr!!

C

Awww special(((((hugs)))))

Yeah, but you do have some valid points…!

I’m not sure how old/young RB is but is does have that young and dynamic feel about it, so I dare say that in time we will have answers to many of these issues If they are channelled in the right direction.

Whirligig – I couldn’t agree with you more! I have been quite depressed the last few days after reading all the previous negative crap lately (although, Jo, your version was a much kinder, gentler version!) I have started to feel like neither the quality of my images nor my comments are good enough! Like you, I’m sure that says more about my “issues” than the discussion itself but I just know that when I joined I though I had found a utopia of supportive and caring sharing artists who embraced anyone willing to have a go, however that seems to be changing.

That said, Jo, I do actually agree with a lot of what you have suggested!

oh i understand now, thanks :) and yea that can be annoying! lol

Hey Tiffany…it’s not worth getting derpressed over!! Your work is great and worthy, as are your comments. I agree with you that RB is changing…as I said above , I feel that RB is degenerating into a “receptacle for….vitriol and abusive comments” .....but I do think that this is from a small number of people who will eventually get bored and drift away.

Let’s stay focused on the many positive aspects of RB and enjoy the community for what it really is….supportive! :-)

OK, I read about the first half of the above comments, then my eyes started to cross.

I am glad this was written Jo, because I was actually getting a bit upset with all that was being said in the forums. Your take on things clarifies issues in my opinion.

I am going to look over what I have uploaded and clean up any that I feel don’t belong here. All of my photos are unique [no repeats] but I still feel I need to self-police what I have.

Granted, according to some in the forums, [and I hate to use the term self-rightous] my photos may not cut it, may not be art! These are the people that make me nervous. I am trying to learn, I enjoy photography more than anything I have done in my life, and when I take what I think is a special shot, I want to share it. I am definitly not popular in numbers, but dammit, I still think I should be allowed to be a bubblite.

Bye now, and Buy bonds.
Tom

I am now off to SELF-POLICE.

Well, I know that I’m gonna focus on the positive things.
I’m sure RB is gonna come up with a good solution.
Regarding negative posts in the forum…..there’s always a small number
of members in any forum who want to heat things up if the opportunity is given.
I don’t let that affect me.

totally agree with all the points you mentioned jo! especially the 1 where you mention ranting over every sale good work

Jo,
I agree with everything you have said. I love RedBubble – there is nothing bad I could say. I look forward to making my first sale no matter how small it is. I will use your sticky to announce it – if that is how the masses would prefer to hear about it. I think I am fitting within the model that you spoke of above and hope to continue to in the future. I agree that RedBubble is not Flickr. Personal family photos should be on Kodak Gallery or Flickr not RedBubble.

One last thing I will say, the majority of artists that I have seen on RB are extremely talented people. I have been very impressed. I look forward to opening my browser everyday to see what is new on the home page and what all of the folks I have watchlisted have loaded.
K…

Well said, Jo.
Let Common Sense prevail!

I am new to RedBubble, prefer the word Journal to blog, Gallery to art, appreciate Writing as its own category, and I am guilty of posting a Journal entry on my first sale.

But there is something else I have done, and that is to make a Journal entry listing all the photos that I’ve purchased as cards. Twice! and I try to make a comment on each photo that I have purchased it as a card. Gosh, I even went to the trouble to have a friend come and visit so she could take a picture of me with my first selection of cards purchased! That photo was added to my Gallery yesterday with a link to the Journal entry listing each photo as a link. It is my way of showing support and appreciation.

The complaints and negativity are infrequent, but they are part of the artist’s temperament. Those who upload happy snaps and repetitive images are easy to forgive because there is so much more added that is spectacular.

RedBubble deserves a lot of praise for putting together this community of people who love photography!

PS: I do like the idea of a Thank You Forum!

I also agree with what Jo is saying. She has nailed it!
Good on her for sticking her neck out!

I have’nt been here too long but sure I’ll add a few words of my thinking.

As regards mentioning of Sales, I think this was touched on in the forums.
Announcing a First Sale is fine and understandable because for quite a few artists it may be the first time they have sold work. However,I don’t agree with mentioning subsequent sales.

I think it was proposed in the forums of having a seperate “Sales Corner”. To me it seems a good idea.
As regards thanking people for comments, a Private Messaging would take care of this.
Personally I don’t see the point in trying to thank every comment. I think we all know that deep down we are always thankful for any comments received.

Spot on Jo.!!! Thanks for taking the time to have rant :o)

For me I’m along the last two comments and similiar above. I’m in Redbubble because I believe it is different and I’m looking to improve my photography, be inspired and be wowed!

I have limited time for RB and dont spend much of it in the forums so haven’t seen much of the background to this.

I try to exercise a level of control in uploading and commenting but try to tell people. I think acknowledging comments is fine although wonder if the poster ever returns to see it.

For me I appreciate the comments particularly if it comes from someone I consider produces work better than mine. I also think its good that the poster gives a reason why they like it be it technical, a connection to something, a memory etc. It rises from there to being ‘faved’ to being ‘watched’ to being bought.

I’m sure I can be found guilty on most counts albeit unintentionally, I haven’t encountered the ‘first sale’ euphoria and will look out for the Thank You Forum when the time comes. However, I can also see why this won’t suit some and perhaps another way is to have a development whereby the nice HQ people will include a ‘Thank You’ message slip with each shipment and to really stretch perhaps it could be a ‘personal’ message that we could edit in our setup page.

I’m all for keeping your family album at least private but doesnt mean your family can’t be part of your art and if I’m guilty of this breach please let me know. After all we all have to work within the resources we have available.

Jo keep up the good work and I genuinely like alot of what you produce and your guidance on other matters.

As we say here ‘there will always to people who want vinegar on their chips (fries)’ Let then have you don’t have to eat them and there is always the delete button.

oops I meant the comments by Kara and Anite – guess I take too long to type

Jo – way to go! I completely agree with everything you’ve said. Especially about “Comments That Detract From Sales” – I just joined RB and received some constructive critisism that I was not looking for on one particular photograph. I believe that a potential buyer might put off a purchase of this particular work because of this comment. The only way I see to fix it would be to remove the photograph from my gallery and upload it again to clear both the critical comment along with (unfortunately) the positive feedback I have received.
I really appreciate your insight regarding these issues. Thank you.

Jo, nice suggestions! I agree with almost everything! I don’t agree with Comments That Detract From The Sale Of Artworks. First of all, commenting exists for a specific reason and that is for letting people tell you what they think about a specific art piece. This means that people will tell you good things and bad things. If we want to keep only the nice comments then why have commenting? Let’s disable it and let the critique happend in the Forums. I like to know that a lot of people like a photograph that I took, but after the 10th “Great work” or “Nice photograph” believe me when I’m saying that any further comment of that type doesn’t make me feel better.

Personally, I like critisism cause I know that my photographs aren’t perfect and I want to change that! I want to know why people think that a photograph is bad, good or perfect. This is the only way we get better people. Through constructive critisism.

Finally, I don’t think that if some bad critisism will make buyers put off some purchases. It’s art, and you cannot put it in a box with rules. If someone doesn’t like a specific work of yours then there are probably many others that will love it! And that will change even if someone writes why he doesn’t like it.

Well these are my thoughts on the matter!

On the last line of the 3rd paragraph I meant to say “And that will NOT change even if someone writes why he doesn’t like it.”

Sorry abou that!

Taken on board – now I need to figure out which ones to delete.

Oh yeah I agree with all of your rant Jo! Bloody well written.
My whinge –
I looked and looked for a site where the snapshots, the series of “my family picnic” etc etc stayed on the home pages, on flickr or wherever and the concentration was on the cream of our individual work. RB comes along and yep this is the site to contribute to I reckon. My snapshots (and I have plenty!) stay on the homepage and I upload what I think are works I would personally buy to showcase what I feel is my best work.
And man there is some serious talent here, motivates me want to improve and keep working on my own work to be more creative and not stagnate. Makes me feel somewhat unworthy at times too with the genuine art posted here!!!
Then there’s the snapshots that flood my watchlist. Have not had the guts to remove the (probably unknowing) offender(s) yet, not wanting to offend. But it takes 2 pages to get past it and yes its frustrating!
Phew, elitist or not this is my rant and it feels good to rant sometimes.
Onya Jo for writing this!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hope the bubble doesn’t burst.
Hope Jo got some sleep.
Many valid points. Bit of the Lord of the Flies feeling.
Hope that deciding what is high quality and what isn’t, is left to the basic good sense of visitors to the RedBubble website but that management continues to promote the best.
Personally, tend to see some of the happy snaps as representing what we have in common and this might sometimes be labeled family values (or something similar), while the sometimes – from my perspective – artificial, unnatural, dramatically lit poses are, again, from my perspective, given too much praise.
But, fortunately, tastes and opinions vary.
Please let it all bubble along, within reasonable limits, set by the Bubble Machine managers.

After reading this
and I’m not being disreptful Jo
This is a rehash of what’s been going on on the other side of the Bubble,
the place the photographers don’t go
For the last week
But because of your status in the Photo community it is finally being translated by someone they listen too
Congratulations
Well written

Oh, no , hang on, let me consider …....... I’ll just push my nose higher in the air …....... now then, which ones are’nt worthy of my gaze …... oooh, or am I being predudiced .
I rather think so. You cant make a distinction between peoples work, just because you dont like it . Everyone has to start somewhere and I dont think its fair to mock people that are just starting out. We all need encouragment, if we dont get it , we move on.
RB is a fantastic place and I believe we should live and let live. Theres enough rules, regulations and red tape in the world to stifle us all …...... anyway, thats my rant.

Well expressed Jo. I’m sure a lot of us might have had similar feelings and frustrations at some point or the other….but well, you’ve brought them out in the same forum.

I particularly liked your idea of adding sales thanks to image comments. If the buyer is around in the forums or on RB and does read a “Sales” journal/forum entry, it is more than likely that they will take a second peek at what they bought.

Good one!

Wow The Bubble has changed. When I first signed up this site use to go to bed with the rest of Melbourne but now I’m waking up to pages of replies!

@ Loredana – I think you’ve got the right idea. While it’s good to acknowledge room for improvement, the main focus need to be on encouraging and suppporting each other to make the RedBubble experience good for everyone.

@ Thomas – Way to lead by example! Being a creative community, strict rules will upset a lot of people but we are all capable of making a judgement call on our own work and thinking about what we decide to upload and what comments we leave.

@ Anita – Great Idea. Grouping thank yous not only enhances the impact of your thanks but minimises the number of posts you need to create.

@ terrifoster – If you receive comments you are not happy with, you can use the “report comment” button. Don’t feel bad about doing this- your request will be looked at by a real living RedBubble staffer who can help you.

@Thodoris – Thank you for sharing your opinion. Isn’t it great when people disagree :) Maybe you can give us some valuable imput on this question that’s been bugging me? How can RedBubble improve the current set up to protect artists who don’t want negative comments and criticism from being exposed to it while allowing those who thrive on criticism to have ready access to it? Bear in mind that anyone can be a member including children, and people who don’t take criticism well and that RedBubble does not want to alienate artists

@ Kathleen – You’ve totally nailed it. So much of this just comes down to being nice to each other and respecting each others time and space. Thank you for summing it up so concisely

Interesting read – The bubble is changing Jo and its hard to keep up.

I also agree about the happy snaps Jo. Quality not quantity people!

Since joining RB I have become aware of many similiar sites around the world and all have their own special feel….....................well to me they do, anyway my point is that the culture of RB is the responsibility of the artists who use this vehicle to show their work to the world. If as artists we set and maintain standards in our work and dealings with our fellow artists then the Bubble will be fine…...............................if we don’t set and maintain high standards for oursleves then the Bubble will just be another website with some nice pictures, if you can find them…..........................it is really up to us!

Whole hartedly agree Jo!!!
Especially the happy-snaps and dozens of the same image over and over…
Another good point I actually meant to bring up earlier “Private Messaging” it’d be great to be able to send/recieve private messages that don’t relate to a particular peice of art – I just hope people respect the forum just because other people can’t see it…

• BTW – I’m a web programmer (php/mysql/Ruby/.net etc.) How exactly do we “help-out” without becoming an employee as such?

The above 90 or so replies and comments should be indicative of just how much our little red bubble has all grown up.It is available to anyone on the planet to submit, critique, complain, whinge, grizzle, praise and any range of commentary possible, it cannot be helped and even more difficult to moderate when the very basis for Red Bubble is the opportunity to contribute, but….. and it is a bigggg but… asking people to play nice when commenting does not mean that everybody will…. It IS as simple as that…....the “quality filter” rests with the individual to discern what they look at and how they respond or not in a negative or positive way. I hate to say this but if you don’t like the chance of being criticised (possibly most unfairly) then go away.

Red Bubble is a fantastic forum for young and old new and ancient amateur and professional artists to show what they do to others across the globe and yes…..... it IS frustrating to sift through a whole lot of images that you don’t like…. but others may like what we don’t and vice versa. I hate the idea of someone no longer wishing to contribute or comment because they no longer feel welcome or worthy to do so.

It is a big wide world out there, kiddies, live with it!! We should all be prepared to respect the views of others in the same way we expect for ourselves…

Well said Jo.

RB is a great community and great communities are made up of lots of different people, pro’s, the in-between and learners. We can all learn something from our community if we simply remember that everyone is entitled to an opinion and that art (all genres) is subjective and therefore open to any form of critique.

I do think there is an issue with dump uploading but unfortunately there doesn’t seem to be a solution. People should edit their images before uploading and try to think if the series (for want of a better word) will be boring and to repetitive. Save that kind of repetitiveness for stock sites where there might be a need for 20 photos from different angles of the one object.

You’ve made an impact Jo, my activity monitor hasn’t moved since your post. :-)

We are all too scared to upload anything.

Thanks Jo. This post inspired me to clean out my port.

@ richiedean – I’m gald you you also are against strict rules. They really don’t make people feel very welcome do they?

@ James Price – You know just the other day I was thinking the RedBubble needs to hire a “Volunteer Coordinator” to make the best use of all the willing people on here who have something to offer.

@ rxaphotography – OH NO! That’s not good at all. I don’t want people to stop commenting! Whoops :(

Chris W… you owe me a new screen. mine is covered in coffee.

Hey, you could make a fab Tshirt design out of this rant….

Is this post still going? Wow.
Danny - I have been reading and commenting on the forum where you say 'photographers don't go' so we're not all narrow minded :)<br /> Jo & everyone else. Seems to me that what lots of this post and many others like it try to do is sort out whether this will be a ‘nice’ site, or a site where people are encouraged to be fair and supportive but that has quality/standard rules. I prefer the latter of the two.
But what that means ultimately is that there will be rules. Rules which demand a certain standard and level of quality.
And when these rules exist (which is the only way to stop this becoming ‘just’ a photo/art sharing website with every photo ever taken by everyone) that means they must be enforced. And enforcing them means some win, some lose.
And then some people may think this place is not so ‘nice’ after all.
RB IMO is at a real fork in the road.
It is starting to get critical mass which means potentially a return for its investors (the first and in business most important audience).
BUT the crtical mass is bringing with it, well the critical masses and that means masses and masses of average ‘quality’ work.
Right here, right now is where RB must decide, does it go mass, or niche.
I consult a lot of companies and believe me, a business can’t be both.
Mass will bring a return on investment via sheer size of market. But a low return on quality work.
Niche will bring less sales but significantly higher margins.
Mass will add the ‘ease of access’ tag to the RB brand.
Niche will add the ‘artistic kudos’ tag to the RB brand.
Which will create a better return?
I believe niche. In the long run.
Mass is already taken and hard to achieve in Australia due to the limited size of our population.
I know RB is world-wide but the critical and key market to win over in the short term is the ‘home’ market.
Niche has a fresh, new proposition. Mass-done to death.
BUT if RB goes niche, it will have to come to terms with the fact that judgements will be made. There is simply no way around it.
And so will we.
The only for certain is if no decision is made, this issue will go on a lot longer than this post. But RB may not.
Now, I’ll get back to writing inane, childish comments…

Hehe. I agree with your comments Jo, especially regarding repetitious postings of the same art edited in different ways. Though these comments are starting to look like a MSN conversation laugh

I like the way that this community gives positive feedback on art and it has only encouraged me to send in more art that I have created.

Mel, that’s an excellent post…it would be great to see a response from RB here to find out what they think about all this

Great post Melinda.

I certainly hope RB chooses Niche over Mass because otherwise their new logo might as well be Redbubble – Another Flickr.

bitching aaaargh love it all

i wonder what the space monkeys will think of all this

Always available for a consultation (hee hee)

ha, jo you are on the money.

there should be a special prohibition on ozcloggie making psuedo-comments that inevitably morph into an utterly irrelevant rant about how his grandma used to sing a song about draft horses while wheeling her cheese over the frozen canal.

hahaha! nice one Jo, make it into a t-shirt and i might even buy it :P > classic rant!

Only one thing to say about this blog (aka Rant :-) . . . YAY!

Yes, I stand guilty here and have already acted upon it. Thanks for pointing it all out, guidelines are definitely helpful -:))))

Thank you for saying so succinctly what so many of us have been thinking.

well i am going to risk it and put my two cents in and only two cents
i will only say that it is not fare to judge someones work as not acceptable on here or low quality because i have seen a lot of work on here that i like some i don’t and some is hideous to me but that does not mean it is not art and that does not mean that there is not some one who does like it we all have our own taste in art and thank God for that …. happy snaps or whatever you called them though i agree need to not be here

Okay so just to get back to the royal,flaming essence of this rant, which is to have a whinge re:etiquette, its a bit ANNOYING when you make a kind of clever sarky joke & then someone else comes along and makes the same joke a few comments later, which implies that they haven’t even read the blog properly! (This is just sooo not Virgo!)

Thanks I needed this.

I tried to keep up with the comments last night but have only had a glance down the rest today, so I apologies if I am off track – but it’s a little unfortunate that the context of your original blog about etiquette seems to have been lost and it has become another quality vs. crap discussion that’s already been had in a few different blogs.

Your original comments were spot on Jo and I applaud you for taking the time to put them together as you have.

Thank you Andrew.

It’s the niche vs mass argument. Was my rant too long?

Fuck. I agree with all of this. That’s very rare. I never agree with anyone, particularly myself.

Wow, what a discussion. I just want to say that I totally agree with Melinda about RB having to decide whether to edit images for quality. In my view quality will win out because as RB grows it will be the only point of difference between RB and all the other places ‘just anyone’ can go and post a picture of their pet dog licking its nuts.

Sadly, if RB goes for quality then most of my snaps will be deleted. But I think it’s a necessary sacrifice if RB is to have a role in developing art and artists here and abroad :(

What would be cool is for the RB community to elect judges, say 3, on a rotational basis. What do you reckon?

@ Lucan Industries – HAHAHA!

@ Mel & Craig – it’s going to be interesting to see what happens on that front. Or at least hope for a balance to be struck.

Can’t believe this thread is still going! Wow, it just shows how everyone on this site has feelings and opinions – love it! What a bunch of thoughtful individuals we all are! Give yourself a pat on the back this morning/evening/afternoon/whatever! :-D

I do agree with Mel, though. And that’s a really interesting post. Enforcement is the key, really, I reckon. Traditionally, the web is self-policing. Will that work still? Or are the RB elves going to keep watch from on high?

i love lamp

oh my what a reaction Jo.

and yes I too am guilty of a few..cough…cough..

I never really know what to say about other peoples work..but I don’t to say nothing because I can’t articulate exactly what I’m trying to say… my personality really get lots between the real world and the cyber world

But apart from me defending myself just then…......WELL WRITTEN LOVIE

I think I’m guilty. I’m sure I’m guilty. Sometimes it’s very hard to make a decision on your own work but I try my best. I’m not repetitive and if I don’t get good reactions or not at all I know it’s not appreciated and take the work off the site. I’m in a learning curve but are really glad that you have written this. Hopefully and according to the amount of reactions it makes people think about it.
Every one, including buyers can see the reactions so it’s not a good idea to be negative on any work or person. To save this site from sliding it’s maybe an idea to have a possibility to write to the staff directly about a subject so nobody gets hurt. It’s extremely hard to be negative about any work because for the person who send it, it’s of great value. The problem is to let them know that it’s not appreciated by everyone. But I believe there are ways to do that.

Melinda’s post here is really essential….

this blog has just appeared on RB’s home-page…that’s a good thing

Hi Jo,
Your ideas have some merit, but I will have to differ on a couple of points

I actually like reading people’s – “I made a Sale” journal entries.

I even search entries to find them. I like reading about someone’s happiness at having sold one of their creations. If they are anything like me they are probably astounded that someone is willing to shell out for something they created even if it is just a card.

I also like to look then go and have a look at what has sold to see if I can figure out what has appealed to the buyer. Personally, its their blog why shouldn’t they boast if they feel like it .

As you can post written work in writing now, I don’t see a problem with using your blog to advertise your sales and your writing portfolio to showcase your written “art”.

I also spend 11+ days at work every day so don’t have that much spare time to go back and recategorise blog entries as writing at the moment – I am sure other bubbler’s are in the same boat. And some of us are not brilliant with these new fangled computers and web thingy :) so we need a bit of extra quality time learning how to use Redbubble’s latest upgrades to our advantage.

Anyhow, it’s great to see your journal provoking so much discussion

ps I still haven’t figured out facebook even though I recently got one.

I haven’t done this until now but I just checked out the community site a little closer.
It’s soooo funny how some members try so damn hard to get exposure.
There was one guy who typed in the same comment to as many pics as possible and
added them to his favorites (he had like almost 200 pages full of it).
One of his regular lines…:
Superb!!! Great colours, details, Well done!

A little desperate there…

If it comes to comments…there are some lines I don’t appeciate at all like
“Beautifull picture. thanks for your comments on my pic.”

It draws attention to the member who wrote the comment.
I don’t write comments on other works in order to receive a thank you-kind
of comment in return.

Benjamin, I have hundreds of images in my favourites too – and it’s certainly not about being desperate, it’s about really admiring those images and enjoying looking at them without having to search for them elsewhere. They are images that inspire me to strive to improve my own work.

It’s sad when people see negatives in what others do without knowing the backgrounds or intentions of those they are making assumptions about.

Whirligig….you misunderstood me.
It’s totally cool with me to see a member with hundreds of favourites.
I was talking about the copy and paste type of comment.
Anyway….let’s move on and focus on the positive.

@ US ALL…..OMG from the Jessica right through to Ben…TULIP73 has gone under a rock somewhere….dito to Thomas, I’ll be sure to edit some of mine, i’m overdue.
Please lets all (and I quote from Thomas) “Self police” and see the positive in all our work. Sharings caring :-)

Tulip73,
I agree…..let’s do that.

lol, great post—especially to a redbubble newb like me!

people who’ve been on message-boards, or the like, tend to know the unwritten laws of internets; glad to know i’m on the same page! :)

Wow, I finally got to the end of all these posts!

Jo, good on you. I agree whole heartedly, although like many others I am guilty too, especially with my dog photo, still I think it has some artistic merit.

All in moderation, especially with so many beginner/amateur potographers and artists, who will (being one of them, I can testify) be sensitive about their work. We of course want everyone to love everything that we do, but in reality, this is not going to happen.

wow Jo. 174 comments. Obviously, you struck a core.

@ kseriphyn – while I hope that it got people thinking, I also hope that people think for themselves and feel free to disagree with what I’ve said too. As for the 174 comments, I can’t believe I’ve sat here and read them all but I have and the response has been amazing… and very reassuring.

Well, I have come to the conclusion, that I still love the bubble, warts and all !!

LOL. Rant on! I agree with most of the things that you mentioned Jo. :)

I for one am still pretty new to rb. Nothing taken personally. Actually, it gives me another perspective to consider before making a faux pas. lol Thanks!!

hi everybody…..i read jo’s 1st entry…though o.k. – good stuff!! then one that chris posted…2nd thought…good stuff…then between there and here my comment is:

what on earth is everyboudy talking about?

Please nobody write an essay and tell me either!!!!! LOL S :)))

So right and thanks for the complete overview and information. VjS

Thanks Jo – Every newbie should read
Here is a list of every sale I’ve made….....

Based on this thread alone, it would appear that I am one of the few artists making a profit from Redbubble. I upload my BEST (according to REAL-WORLD friends and family) work, buy my own work (cards mostly), RB delivers with a white envelope in a sealable bag … and I on-sell. Couldn’t be easier.
But there are some good comments in this thread (albeit a little difficult to find, but they are in there!) that I am taking to heart … in a good way!

Stand up and take a bow Jo!!!! I have felt exactly the same way many, many times!!! I am thinking of bmailing this to a few on my watchlist (I’d never do that, to spare their feelings, but it is VERY tempting!!), so that they will STOP loading 15 – 20 images a day!!! Cheers to you!!!

ROCK on JO. I hear what you are saying and thank you for taking the time and making the committment to keep us all in line.

agree,agree,agree,agree,agree…......

I would say something but i might be accused of blatant self-promotion :)