Jo O'Briencommunity ambassador


Photographers - What are you paying for? (Part One)

Disclaimer: This is not legal advice or even professional advice. This is some stuff I’ve learned along this funny little thing called life and may not apply in any way to your current situation. At worst, it’s my opinion, at best it’s some ideas for you to think about. If you need real proper advice, go see your solicitor.

I’m of the opinion that photography should make me money, not cost me money. So far, I have been successful is making more from a photograph than it took me to create. Here is my list of not so secret tips and advice on covering your arse and saving your cash.

When To Pay

There are times where spending your hard earned money is the right choice. For example to obtain goods or services you can not find for less (or free) elsewhere. Or when you have done all the maths yourself and you feel you are buying into a good deal. But there are also some pit falls to watch out for.

Art Direction, Ideas and Intellectual Property

My rule of thumb, if I am paying to shoot, I should have full rights to everything I take. No ifs buts or maybes about it.

If you shoot a commercial, the art direction team put together a shoot and then hire a photographer to take photos of what they and the crew have created. They pay for lighting design, they pay the models, they pay the hair stylist, they pay the guy who makes the coffees- and they pay the photographer.

Some businesses operate under a similar model but suck money out of photographers in the process. As part of a ‘workshop’ or ‘event’, several photographers rock up with their cameras and take photos of a scene. Often they have little or no control of the setup, can’t communicate properly with the models and will walk out of it with similar images to everyone else who attended! In the worst cases they have restricted rights regarding how they use their images. So is essence, they have paid for something that out in the real world, would be making them money. Sorry if it sounds confusing, the concept completely baffles me.

When you are shooting someone else’s ideas and have restricted publishing rights or have little influence over the set up, posing, lighting or set design, (in my opinion) you should be getting paid by them. After all, you are doing them a favor by taking images of their creative work.

Classes or Tuition

Wanting to improve you skills and knowledge is a great thing. And there are numerous classes, mentors and workshops available for you to choose from. If you are going to pay to attend these, make sure you are getting what you pay for. Before you hand over any cash there are a few details that you should have to help make your decision.

Class Size: The more people attending, the cheaper the class should be. If there is a practical component, I usually wont accept a class bigger than 10-12
Location & Time: no point signing up for an ‘on location’ workshop only to find it is out of your way. Also as a safety issue, you should always be able to tell a trusted person exactly where and when you will be shooting.
The Teacher: You should be able to find and contact the person facilitating the class to verify their experience and ask questions. It not always convenient for a facilitator to take calls from a whole class, but you should be able to send them an email and get a reply without going through a middle man.
Contracts: Ask if you will need to sign any contracts and insist upon receiving them before paying.
What do you get: do you get class notes to take home? Exactly what does the course entail? What can you hope to know and have learned at the end of the course?

Contracts

These are a great way to waste your money. They also happen to be very important.

First and foremost contracts exists to make people money or stop people from making money. So before signing anything, read it a few times and make sure you are aware of what your actions are costing you. If you need to get images approved before sale or publication, you could be agreeing to never publishing or selling any images taken if none are ‘approved.’ It is completely reasonable to request changes to a contract or write your own and offer it instead. Don’t sign away potential income!

You should always be able to take a contract away and show it to other people for advice before signing it, and especially before paying for anything. If you are not given this opportunity, my advice is to avoid it with a ten foot pole. And then there are the bazillion poorly written contracts that mean very little or nothing at all. It’s actually quite funny to me sometimes, what people will put on paper.

Useful Links

Australian Competition & Consumer Commission
Scam Watch

Photographers – What are you paying for (part 2).

  • ~ Ademac

    ~ Ademac

    Wonderful advice Jo, just wish you had written a week ago….....thanks.

  • peter kelly

    peter kelly

    Thanks Jo,
    some good advice in there for young and old alike!!

  • Claire Brewis

    Claire Brewis

    Aww cool thanks Jo! Its useful to have some hints like this occassionally x

  • Scott Ruhs

    Scott Ruhs

    Great info to have. Thanks, Jo!

  • Stephen Mitchell

    Stephen Mitchell

    Good reading, definitely information I need to be aware about. I’d love to read more about the ‘Time For Photos’ concept … you seem to have that done to a fine art!

  • earthairfire

    earthairfire

    Sums up my thoughts 100% – great advice :)

    Tim

  • jep983

    jep983

    Thanks for the advice Jo! :)

  • Jaeda DeWalt

    Jaeda DeWalt

    Great advice, informative, well organized and presented.
    Thank you Jo!

  • John Conway

    John Conway

    great information and advice Jo, thanks

  • Edwin Wood

    Edwin Wood

    Great advice Joe, thank you, faved for future reference.

  • Edwin Wood

    Edwin Wood

    Sorry, spelled your name wrong… Jo ! :-)

  • Belinda Piffero

    Belinda Piffero

    Thanks Jo, once again for sharing your experience and advice :)

  • Jo O'Brien

    Jo O'Briencommunity ambassador

    Just to reiterate…

    This is not legal advice or even professional advice. This is some stuff I’ve learned along this funny little thing called life and may not apply in any way to your current situation. If you need real proper advice, go see your solicitor.

  • Karin  Taylor

    Karin Taylorcommunity helper

    great Jo…good guide :)

  • David Barnes

    David Barnes

    Jo – great idea for a post. I think a lot of us develop pretty “ad hoc” arrangements as we get into photography and discover we need/want models, studios, extra gear on occasion and so on.

    Then one day a commercial job comes along and we realise that everything we’ve been doing up until then just doesn’t “cut the mustard”. It’s a constant and on-going process of refinement in terms of coming to arrangements with clients, with talent, and with publishers.

  • Peter Evans

    Peter Evans

    Some great stuff here Jo and very well presented :-)

  • animo

    animo

    wise words – thank you for putting this out into bubbleland jo.

  • Bevsimages

    Bevsimages

    Great words from someone whos been there & knows the pitfalls…I feel I’m standing on the sidelines & want to give up my working career & do photography full time, but not much call for or much £’s in little old Cumbria, UK…If anyone out there needs a fairly new photographer with an olympus SLR camera on weekends in the North of England & South West of Scotland & wants to pay me…Contact me…lol ;D I also write books & do public motivational speaking on confidence, overcoming food/domestic violence issues….Ok here endith the self promotion but Thanks for sharing Jo & love the red boots image!! Bev x ;))
    www.bevsbook.co.uk

  • Stephen Kaak

    Stephen Kaak

    Thanks Jo, a worthwhile article.
    E x

  • Srdjan Nikolic

    Srdjan Nikolic

    I agree with you Jo. After 3 years trying to start up something resembling financially viable photo business I am still at the starting point :-(.

    On the ‘Classes’, I am a PSC drop-out and sort of happy about it. Reason? I like learning on my own. Spent inordinate amount of time and money in the studio, on the street and on the beach (and anywhere else) and wasted a lot of film and disk space, but the experience is irreplaceable. I think twice and then again about going into any ‘class’ situation or group shoot. I rather create my own situations and sets. I rather see the world through my own eyes. At least there are no issues about copyright :-).

  • Mary Broome

    Mary Broome

    Thanks for the advice Jo, Unfortunately for me it came too late as I got sucked into a set up similar to what you described above:

    I didnt know beforehand that there were contracts relating to the restriction of use of the photos (the only contract mentioned beforehand was a model release) and I didnt know that my hard earned $$ were going to net me nothing that showed any of my own creativity. Furthermore afterwards I was given no explanation as to why photos that I wished to use were rejected and when I requested an explanation all I got was silence. Then to add insult to injury the only correspondence I did receive demanded that I adhere to the contract.

    Unfortunately it was run by a person on RB and has left me with a bitter taste in my mouth and I cringe whenever I see another such shoots advertised. I have since pointed out to the person responsible there is nothing in any of the advertising that warns potential photographers of what is involved, and nothing has been done to rectify this.

    So my bad experience has now been put down to one of lifes lessons and I have moved on, so to all you photographers out there wanting to gain some experience, Like Jo said, make sure you know the ins and outs BEFORE you pay up and BEFORE you sign anything.

  • Flamejob

    Flamejob

    Amen !

  • bchrisdesigns

    bchrisdesigns

    awesome advice!!!!

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