Philip Golan

Must agree with Dennis why should you pay for the crimes of others, there must be a way to register cards with rb that are used to purchase goods.

It seems to me, after scanning the User Agreement and your email communications, that RB is in breach of the User Agreement.

The easy way out (although not the best solution) is to ban all sales and purchases from your region of the world. If RB is going to continue this ban on sales and purchases from the blacklisted countries, then RB should make that fact known and cease to advertise itself as a “global community.” RB should also advise new members from the blacklisted countries that they can neither buy nor sell from this site when they initially join the site. Or RB should amend the User Agreement to reflect their discriminatory practice to exclude an entire region of the world.

The more appropriate solution would be to spend the few dollars for a service which will provide better fraud protection.

I am shocked Philip! I ‘m sure you are surprised and angry.

I am astounded that RB should adopt such a broad flagrant discriminatory policy. It is disgusting! People should not be banned from purchasing because of where they live. It is a shame members of RB in good standing are prevented from purchsing. It does seem grossly unfair. However, the very simple solution to their fraud problem is to contract PayPal’s services. You can purchase anyting from anywhere on eBay…....PayPal provides payment protection. PayPal stops fraud in it’s own tracts as nothing is shipped until payment is received. The answer Red Bubble has given to you, Philip, is not satisfactory nor does it resolve the issue. Shame on Red Bubble.

Hopefully your usual thorough and reasoned ‘voice’ will make a difference Philip. There are obviously ways around this issue – it is a question of whether or not RB wants to do anything about it. You have my support … and my offer to order on your behalf with shipping directly to you but I believe that is not a ‘goer’ either??

Yes. I agree with all that’s said. There must be a fairly simple way around this. As Sue says. Paypal or Eway could be used.
If you want the calendar bought, let me know. I’ll do it & send it to you. Though me thinks that on principle you may not purchase.

I learned about this scandal 2 weeks ago when my sister in law who is an rb member that resides in Israel, stoped her activity in RB since she could not buy tees from an artist in England,
I couldn’t beleive it. Seems to me that in this age of international commerce and world wide transactions, that entire regions will be black listed due to the inability and ineffectiveness of RB heads. If paypal is not the answer, since it will cut more of their profits in commisions, and lowering the revenue to the artist, I can understand that, but simple electronic measures for card fraud can be implemented to avoid this mess.. RB is in a breech of contract, which can be contested in court, and in a way shoots itself in the foot by eliminating all current and potential members from these regions. Very dangerous, stupid and enraging approch..

Hi Phil.. I agree with everything said also.. Gail has already mentioned the fact that I was also going to offer to buy the calendar for you and send it to you.. Understand your feelings.. It is not right…

shocked!

Thank you all for your comments and support.
Rosalie has added her own journal on this subject, and can be read here: Amatter of concern

Thanks Rosalie.

Philip I am shocked and dismayed by Redbubble… they certainly are continuing to stuff things up on this site,,, I really hope you get a positive outcome,,, and that Redbubble becomes a more transparent organisation,,,,,

Hi Philip. I’m disappointed to learn that you’ve been caught up in this. It’s a shame that well-intentioned people such as yourself are being caught in the net. I think a better approach to public communication needs to be implemented on this site. It is lacking a polished touch at the moment IMHO.

Paypal have banned all or most of those countries too…for the same reason….fraud can kill a business very quickly

here

And I quote Another consideration will be whether you sell internationally, because Paypal has a long list of countries it will not permit purchases to be made from

Hi Phill thanks for this, as a bookkeeper/accountant and general jo public person what worries me most about Peters reply is that the emphasis on FRAUD PREVENTION has been put on the back burner…. this should be A NUMBER 1! priority, as with any site that sells to the public.

My Second point is if the “BAN” one country they should ban all of them just because some are caught more often does not in any way mean that the bigger countries do not have the same issues, they may just have a better way of hiding it.

FRAUD is a part of our lives sad to say but its true.. but to descriminate becausae of the probablitly of one country being more fraudulent than another is Bad business.

so i repeat FRAUD PREVENTION SOFTWARE AND MEASURES should be on top of the RB list not the backburner.

Thanks for raising this Philip.
I just found this thread after trying to purchase some of my own work online using a $30 voucher I won on RB (thought it would be a good way to spend it!!)
Then found my country (India) wasn’t on the drop-down list anymore!

I can understand how you feel – you’re getting screwed over as an Aussie by an Aussie company just cos of where you live.
Well – I’m getting screwed cos they don’t know how to properly manage their payment gateways.

Oh – and I’m certainly glad that there is no credit card fraud in Australia or any of the other ‘permitted’ countries.

For those who feel strongly about this can I encourage you to vote in the feedback forum at the moment support for any change is very low and we use the feedback form as a gauge for the breadth of support from the community.

get off of it with this voting thing peter, sheesh
to ban any country because someone might have used a credit card as fraud, then ban ALL countries, its not just in the ones banned. anyone from the USA, Australia, anywhere in the world can do something fraudently. I would think you as a business person would have taken care of any fraudulent actions ASAP, before you worry about selling a t-shirt.
This is totally Wrong

I agree with all who are disgusted with this discriminatory action of RedBubble, which has a taste of “Orientalism”, of declaring that only people from Europe and other “first world” countries are civilized and trustworthy.

It is also obvious that we should have been immediately and publicly notified on such changes, especially those members who are personally affected by it – and this was not done. I think RedBubble has a strange set of priorities, if dealing efficiently with the risk of fraud, in all the available venues, was and still is not on top of the list, and offending and harming existing members seems an acceptable solution for the time being, preferable to taking the time needed to apply the common and reasonable solutions – which may take a precious month, or should have taken that month a few months ago, already.

I, like many others, got attached to this community and may find it hard to walk away in protest, but if the situation stays as it is and RedBubble keeps thinking small and arrogantly dismissing and belittling a part of its community as insignificant – I guess we should soon look for an alternative community.

I’ve just created new feedback suggestion Let people from all countries become members of RB community. It says:
—
RB tries to prevent itself from fraud by not posting to some countries and not allowing new members from these countries. It is very important for the whole community and future of RB to find another, more appropriate solution as soon as possible. People from those countries have to have possibility to become members and share their art. Possibility to buy from RB should be assessed individually, members from any country should not be disclosed by default just because of residence in that country.
—
I believe it is more relevant than just ‘RB should post to more countries’. Should you find it appropriate, please go and vote for it. Can we show RB that we find this theme really important?

I wish to thank you all for your comments and support.

I think we should clear the table a bit, put everything into proportion and return to the crux of this issue.

The issue is not just the lack of RB’s handling of the fraud. One must accept that they have a genuine problem. The country ban has been in place since June or July, so they have had ample time IMO to implement system and application changes, but have left it on the back burners for this calendar year so far.

The real issue here is the fact that they [RB] did not notify the affected members of their decision. This again IMO is an infringement of the user agreement. Unfortunately Peter does not agree with me.

“We may amend the terms of this agreement from time to time, and we will let you know about these changes either by sending you an email to the email address you have registered with RedBubble or by displaying information about the changes on our home page, or both. Either way, your continuing use of the RedBubble website will be taken to be acceptance of the new terms. “

No emails were sent to members residing and / or registered in the blacklisted countries, and no notice was posted on any front page.

IMO, RB forget that they are OUR agents, and that WE butter their bread.

“1.1 You appoint RedBubble as your agent to market to and obtain orders from customers for the purchase of your products over the website and to fulfil those orders by manufacture and delivery of your products (“appointment”) and we accept the appointment and will carry it out with regard to your interests.”

They have a duty to protect us and themselves against fraudulent activities, but they are bound by agreement to inform us of decisions and actions such as blacklisting, since such decisions and actions, constitute an amendment of the user agreement.

This HAS NOT been done, and the MAJORITY of members affected have no idea of their change of status.
This ladies and gentlemen is where the real issue lies.

I felt sad about it. One of main reasons why I came here is because I thought it’s 100% global, and I love the artistic and open atmosphere @RB. Art is universal, so do RB members.

RB tries to prevent itself from fraud by not posting to some countries and not allowing new members from these countries. It is very important for the whole community and future of RB to find another, more appropriate solution as soon as possible. People from those countries have to have possedbill
IT is very sadly…especialy when there TShirt promotion mentions Israil

Now, I don’t feel proud to be here. RB has treated us like nothing while THEIR earning ans living is dependent on us.

I stand with you, Phil.

This is so wrong… All RB has to do to prevent fraud is to hold delivery until payments are varified.. how hard is that ??
Australian Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade 0262777500
Commonwealth Ombudsman 1300362072 0362760111
Prime Ministers Office 0262777700
Attorney Generals department 0262506666

Start a petition in Art Action Union, and/or Current Issues forums !!!