Safe Filter???

It is a very touchy subject for some Tony . There will always be division on the subject . I sit in your camp and totally agree with you . Trouble is we all see the same thing differently and some just do not see it as we do . Your pictures are of total beauty and do nothing but show that …. beauty.

Tricky one Tony – I have a lot of sympathy for your point of view but some people are inherently offended by nudity and, when it comes down to it, I think that is their choice and they shouldn’t have to be afraid that on visiting RB they may be offended. I think the Safe Filter is a good compromise. It let’s us still post and view nude photos if we want and let’s those who don’t also have the same freedom – a win/win.

I do not find any of your images in any way offensive. RB have laid out guidelines for nudity etc., with which you comply. However, some people, through upbringing, personal taste, religious belief or other reason may find such images offensive. This equally applies to someone who may be offended by spider, snake or skull images. I do not see how one can pander to what any particular individual might consider offensive.

If the RB guidelines are read by people before they join, then they should understand whether their may be items within that will offend them. If they feel this may be the case, then do not sign up!

If you find something offensive, then do not enter an arena where such things may be found. It’s quite simple.

Tony.

“rather than censorship”

Tony, surely this is not a matter of censorship – since the images are still freely available to view and no one has asked to you remove them.
The workplace where I’m employed at would probably dismiss me for viewing such work – hence that’s why I had to remove myself from a (un-named) group recently because the work wasn’t tagged as NSFW on a consistent basis. At home I can simply click and turn the filter off.

Does Red Bubble apply the ‘not safe for viewing at work’ filter to people’s works without telling them, Jo? I think this goes to the heart of what Tony is most concerned about. If it isn’t, the artist’s work can be pulled with or without explanation, tho with it the artist may get a better handle on limitations.

Interesting enough, my partner in photography was quite surprised to see a very visible clitoris in a photograph in a group. She wasn’t able to tell me where since she’s not offended by any display of the human form and didn’t note the location. But these things do make their way into galleries and groups until they are either reported or seen by The Powers That Be. But is a nipple “non-offensive” while a clitoris is? Is the test ‘what would a 10 year old think if viewing it unattended by an adult’? Or are some human body parts “pornographic” by nature? On American ‘free’ television (the broadcast stuff as opposed to paid programming) seeing a nipple at the Super Bowl almost brought down an entire company so we can’t even see that here. LOL! And if someone saw a nipple on my computer at work (and I’m talking about my personal computer, not a company piece of equipment), I’d be reprimanded sternly once and fired the second time. Yet showing a nipple doesn’t need a safe filter? Or does it?

Honestly, I think nudity becomes “wrong” because it’s not taught to be a natural part of humanity. Being a nudist, I firmly (no pun intended) believe we’d all be better off removing the verboten stigma applied to simple nudity. After all, Adam and Eve started out that way so it can’t be that bad, can it? :-)

Hmm – I think there are a number of assumptions in your points that are pretty presumptuous:
1. Are you really posting your images to “help” others or because they are your art and you want to share it like we all do.
2. Just by looking at any image, be it nude or whatever people aren’t automatically empowered or disempowered – it depends on where they are coming from, what the image plugs into for them and the degree of choice they feel they have over what is being presented to them.
3. Who are you to make assumptions about what is or isn’t empowering for people anyway and whether they have a choice about this “empowerment”?
4. Forcing people to conform to your view of what constitutes a healthy attitude to nudity and sexuality is just plain arrogant. S&M fetishists could well argue that their attitude to sexuality is the right one (I completely abhor this myself but it may well work for them) but I for one do not want to be confronted with images of sexual violence when I come on to RB.

Having said all that I love your work and very much look forward to your posts. You are singularly skilled at presenting the beauty and grace of the human form. But I really take issue to what I think are some incredibly arrogant assumptions underpinning your comments.

Hey Tony – I admire your art – But I know from experience not to look at your work whilst Im having my lunch here here in my open plan workspace. Sadly I think that it would be very difficult for me to explain to my employer Iif I was viewing certain images on this site, so I try to avoid them. I save them for home!

I appreciate when RB users do apply the safe filter to images containing nudity, etc because it reduces the potential for inapropriate viewing (at work). I hope you and other RB users can see that and please use the NSFW filter setting.

hello Tony, I agree with what you are saying. I am, at this time, painting a water clour of a nude woman. While painting this, I have wondered whether or not I am going to get any flack for it because I hadn’t planned on attaching a safe filter to it. I, also, don’t feel that one should have to place a safe filter to something that is not pornographic. I also feel that to do so, would suggest to others that the work is in fact pornographic. I have seen many works of art that are painted, in one medium or another, and have not seen that there has been any flack. Why would it be ok to paint a nude and not ok to have a photograph of a nude. I agree that we, as a society in whole, get a bit carried away with what is being called ‘protection’ for the safety of another.
Not sure what the outcome of all this will be but, just thought I’ld let you know that there is one more artist/redbubbler with the same views as yourself. Kind of makes one wonder what would happen if our public libraries would have to ban books with images of works by the Old Masters. I must add, your work is truly beautiful and in my opinion, in good taste.

“I do not believe that any employer should dismiss any worker for viewing these images provided they are doing so on their own time.”

Then perhaps your arguments should be projected to employers rather than preaching to the converted. :-)

Hi Tony have to be against you on this one, I enjoy surfing rb at work and would be subject to disciplinary action if your work was to show up on my pc there. that does not even touch on the point about kids accessing these shots, As a parent i will decide when and what they should see no matter what your intentions are.
This in no way restricts your rights as most serious rb users would not be put off by having the safe filter on to protect others who do not wish to see it.
Alan

there’s one in every crowd Tony, please dont let the “one” influence any of your future work. You are a Legend on red bubble, keep up the standard we all strive to achieve.

Geoff Coleman makes several apt points- it is arrogance to believe that your own viewpoint is the only correct one and others need to be helped to “enlightenment”. Tony you tell the world with almost every posting that you are a very sensitive person, so how about a little sensitivity to the sensibilities of others.

Hi Tony! I have seen some of your “nude” work and think they are done with taste and are beautiful. As a parent I have to be honest and say that since children may see the artwork and photography here it’s better to have a safe filter. One site I’m on does not allow nudity of any kind. Hugs, Tammy

Hiya Tony. Stick to your guns, sunshine. If these narrow-minded, tunnel-visioned intellectually and emotionally impaired people can’t work out by a 1cm X 1cm thumbnail, that there may be content that will upset them, why the hell do they click on the button. It’s the same as the “Billy Connelly” series on TV. The blurb at the start of the show states that explicit language is used, yet they are the ones ringing the phone stations and TV stations ””complaining”” about the language?! I always thought there was the freedom of changing the channel, and in your case, not clicking the thumbnail image to open the full picture. I personally think they like the “shock” value, as it gives them something to gossip about and shake their fingers at!!!
I love all of your work, and being the father of 4 and grand-father of 5, I would have no hesitation in letting them see these images under my supervision. As David say’s above…: dont let this “one” influence any of your future work. You have a pure genious for capturing the female figure, whether clothed or nude, in an evocative, NOT provocative state. Keep up the GREAT work! I think there are a lot of people here on RedBubble who will back me in this view.
Andrew

Amen!

I think our world has nudity and sex so intertwined that they cannot see that the two are different. And that somehow nudity is damaging to kids yet we let them watch Bruce Willis kill hundreds of bad guys in movies. Nothing against Bruce Willis. He’s a fine actor but my point is that we let our kids watch violence and no one thinks twice about it. But heaven forbid if they should see something beautiful. What if all the kids who saw a naked person decided to start photographing, painting or sculpting nude figures… what kind of world would we live in then? Probably the kind of world that I’d want to live in.

Just adding my two cents. I’m behind you fully on this one. Keep up the good work Tony!

Aloha,
Jason Tag

Hi Tony…
You are too good … or behaving too diplomatically.
It has nothing to do with “protection” but with other things. Firstly, is un undevelopped sense of human sexuality….rooted in a moralistic and puritan culture.Mostly… this type of culture has had a lot of power in the past…(not so long ago) and now it becomes virulent in an individual basis. It is based in education and hides the most abject of all the vices,that profound hypocresy. The behaviour of the hypocrite persons…..(” your eyes are scandalizing you should get them out…” not my words but Jesus´s )is of an utmost arrogance…that is why the lady has told you that she does not need to give you any explanation. She could possible be of a rigid constitution which causes her much trouble… and not your pictures which are really the “scapegoat” for all her miseries.
But the target is personal….that is…one does not need to stop by any artists who is showing nudes, those prudish or explicitely sensual. The fact is that your nudes are attracting her as a magnet…and making her loosing her temper…her own protection against her own needs and feelings. And then…..he is bullying you with her protective and rotten ideological stuff. Children should not be working in any site of adults. And to tell that for protection all the adult sites would have to be censored means that all adult places…art…..work…is potentially if not factually dammaging for their souls. And that is really a corruption and lack of sense of justice.

As for the RB staff….well i do think they have their way of protection themselves…and “whitewash” their grounds as well. Not liking it at all. Really. Can you all remember that chapter of the Simpsons i which March campaigned for abolishing that (I do not know how it is i Spanish…the cartoons of the mouse and the cat..Scratch and Pick..?) well—-she has found that they were extremely brutal..(which they were) and that for the same nocive forthe children..an started to fight for the cause…even going to TV… well and afer visicitudes…a beautiful classical statue came to Springfield…but oh….itwas nude…andshow the male genitals as well..the ladies of the city stumped against her because she was i favour of art…and at the end she found out that….morality is a matter of personal foundations…that she had not right to bully persons..that things should be contamplated from many points of view…and that a lack of “sense of justice” drives her to fanaticisim and in the end… to fascism….(in a wide sense of meaning)

I think that we should not submmit to this reactions.
And protest and defend our work, and our own ethics. Otherway…the envious souls….will try to turn us into “repentable flocks” that in case do not repent (sins are arbitrary detected of course) will be driven to “hell” or in te best of the cases to a new “crusade-war”. Chase of Divine Sexuality if on…again. Case of the Witch….Chase of the Flesh…Out of the urecognized personal Shadow´s Dungeons…

Have my sympathy, and love Tony…your nudes are gorgeous.
Rosa

Tony – I wouldn’t have even responded in the first place. Some people are so caught up in some sooky la-la world, have too much time on their hands and go around whinging and off-loading their negativity on to others. Who’s Nude – who cares !

Your photos show respect for the models and beauty. There can be nothing offensive in that.

I have never understood the “Safe For Workplace Viewing” feature. Here in California, many people would get fired just fo rusing a workplace computer for personal reason – regardless of what they were. I know people who were fired just for checking eBay or their email. I don’t know how it is anywhere else, but people should not be on the internet at work regardless if they are looking at nudity or not.

As far as your concern, I totally agree wtih you. There are a lot of squeaky wheels out there and a lot of people would rather grease them.

I tend to agree with Tony here. His images are in no way pornographic. I can’t see they could cause any harm to anyone. Yet the world is full of people who disagree. i was extremely shocked when this first happened to me and my painted nudes that I posted on a facebook game.

I’m behind you %100 percent Tony! I hope the person offended by your art never travels to Europe… With some of the statues there they might not be able to leave the hotel room!!!

I have friends who are offended by religious imagery (I’m not joking), I wonder if RB will start putting filters on images here that depict religion?

Where will it end????

As for people viewing RB at work. Perhaps if they were working and doing what they are getting paid to do that might not be an issue… Just a thought!

I love your work, it is tastefully and very artistically done…
We will never please everyone all of the time and I wish, like you, that people would realize the earthsuit is a gift…
It is people who teach their children that the body is “BAD”, that raise rapists, pediphiles and child pornographers!!!!
Keep up the good work Tony ;)

i agree with you FUCKING PASSIONATELY dude. as it seems, in a rare, rare synchonicty of ontology, we do on most things.

i have had four images removed.

my supposition would be that there must be a concession made to the biggest IT market in the world (er welll i think it is?) the USA.

and they let george bush run their country.

and they published my piece (shocked the living fuck out of me)
entitiled glass of hours? mad paul sweary bad words oops

which includes one of my all time favourite lines;

“if it really passes at all

like ships fucking in the night.

“

so i think they do their best with allowing what they can.

i agree with you wholeheartedly and growling and muttering cool curses all including the words ‘conservatives’ and ‘piss midget nancy boy guys who are too scared that they want to root men not women and so wander round making other people annoyed and unhappy in the pantsal area like they are.

wish they would have the guts to find a nice or nasty boy and reach out and fuck someone. man it would save a lot of needless violence -

like that stemming from HITLER.

am convinced of that one. check out how he killed rome and ALL of his staff of upper level brownshirts who were openly rooting each other. why would he go to so much trouble unless he was a participant? why murder hundreds of innocent supporters?

if only the bastard had the GUTS to say

“ja, herr himmler. come up to my quarters for a nightcap, ja?” and got into his pants.

hm tangent alet!

always a pleasure to read your words. you are a DEEPLY and UNIQUELY wise man.

i hope we can remain friends for a long time yet.

*alert not alet.

oh and just played through a role playing game on my pc (secretly i am serisouly committed to nerd cultre and yeh i am one deep down.)

it was a great game, 12thc poland and you could pick up if you acted like a human being and not an asshole. there were vague actual sort of sex scenes. a little nudity.

the yan version (released here WHYYYYY took me forever to hack!!) had all of the beautifully written swearing removed, all the nudty.

BUT THEY LEFT IN THE BLOOD SPRAYING EVERYWHERE. along with decapitations, disemboweling, hanstriinging.

that is serisouly messed up.

loonies. just thought it was a prime example.

oh and i have never found any of your images pornagrpahic in the least.
you are a master of your craft, and your gentleness soaks through vision to lense to film to print in shards of beauty.

their loss. unfortunately ours too.

if the cummings quote was not the case for me this year: “iam living so far beyond my means that we could be considered to be living apart;”
well i would buy prints of your banned works out of principal and because your authorship is a guarantee for me of beauty and grace.

:)

take care my friend.

i think your work is great, i see no more in your images than what i see in a newsagent store,there are more explicit photo’s on red bubble that should have a safe filter applied, but dont. your image of ’’ natural ’’ is far from being porngraphic in content, and i’m sure from a male point of view that most women would love to have the figure of that woman in your image.
i see no harm done, great work tony , and keep it coming !!

tony i just wodered if this particular person whom complained to you, had any say on the male images displayed, some of those are full on, i think.
just a thought !!!!!

Hi Tony….I have viewed your images and they are very beautiful and graceful and in no way offensive.. I agree with most of the comments here that it is a shame that our society does not embrace the beauty of the natural human form….I myself paint and do so enjoy painting nudes of which I see no need for a filter… I have never hid my paintings from my children or grandchildren for I think it is important that they view the human body as beautiful…. I also agree that it is a shame that violence is more accepted in our world than the simple natural beauty of nature and the natural beauty of humans….. All the best to you and continue posting your natural artistic beauty…..Robin:)

Another great topic to read Tony. You sure know how to pick them. The points I find most interesting is the fact that we have so much violence around which is uncensored, yet nudity is seemed to be a fearful thing . This would be enough for a discussion all on it’s own. The other point is there can be imagery which is sexually suggestive but not involving nudity, and nudity which is not sexually suggestive. For example, many film clips. There is so much confusion around that it is difficult for people to make an informed decision about ANYTHING in life. We spend so much of our time and energy approaching life with our emotional knee-jerks that it clouds our judgement. Why do we fear our own bodies?

Great. Good points made Tony.

All the best

Kain

Ciao Tony,

Wow, this is a subject to which I too am passionate about, and believe me I’ve had more images removed than hot dinners, from more sites than I can remember. needless to say that I support your view-point and your cause 100%. Great comments by Rosa, so aptly defined, I love it, just as I love most of the words from your other supporters.

I’m not sure if you are aware, but this has become such a big issue that UNESCO in Paris are being lobbied to host a round-table on this subject, which effective breaches an artist’s “freedom of expression”, which under many European laws is in itself illegal. As such, this is not only a moral issue but a legal one.

Personally, I think an artist should be able to express exactly what he wants to express, be it nudity, sexuality, violence, depravation or whatever. This doe not mean that I either support or enjoy all/any of the latter, it is simply an artist’s right to freedom of expression. Subsequently, we all have a choice as to whether or not we wish to view such works. If we do not (and I for one do not enjoy works depicting violence or depravation), then don’t view. we all have this choice.

When it comes to any form of art, the subject matter is by default subjective. As such, viewers should not be exposing either themselves or their children to websites such as RB (and many others), if they cannot accept the fact that art viewed may offend. That is by default the subjective and objective nature of art.

The truth is (as so many people herein-above have quite accurately stated), the people who complain are themselves with nothing much better to do and with significant deep-routed problems that cannot be addressed or resolved here. Take no notice of them ! Just keep producing “your art”, which quite evidently in this case, most people love and admire (including me !).

If you want any details on the UNESCO situation, just let me know, I’d be happy to mail it to you. The world has some truly mess-up people in it. Ignore them, because responding to them somehow just seems to encourage them further, somehow making them believe that their view is relevant or important, when in almost all cases it is not.

One last point. I NEVER accept unauthorised censorship of my work. Only I censor my work; it is mine, and only I have the right to do so. I can be asked or advised, but if any website, gallery, magazine (or whatever) in any way whatsoever changes or impedes the freedom for people to view my work as it was intended, I am out of there in a blink. I do not need nor desire to be associated with such people. Just my own personal perspective this, but I thought I’d mention it. I had one case where a website pulled some of my work, and after considerable exchange of e-mail, the site owner reinstated my work, agreed with my perspective and told those complaining exactly that. All credit to him, he remains a good friend to this very day.

Keep-up the great works Tony, you have a true talent !

Sincere regards,

Thomas.

your pieces are fabulous, classy and nowhere near pornographic..some ppl are just frigid, or believe they are some kind of bubble watch dogs…

although there does seem to be a lot of “exposing onself” on the bubble lately! lol im like jeez ppl! get a room! j/k j/k it’s good that ppl are proud of themselves and comfortable in their own skin….

anyway now im just rambling….your work is top notch and ignore those who say otherwise!

exactly….i 100% agree….the beauty of the actual subject being lost with this kinds of “pieces” and frankly, it also may be part of the reason why people who are a bit close minded or judgemental are viewing ANY nudity as crude…because of these other types of images they are seeing.

Heya Tony,

I’ve had a good look around your work and find it all beautiful, Natural included. It’s a perfectly titled work that I believe sums up your argument on this issue.

However, I found it whilst at work, taking 5 minutes to have a sandwich and a cuppa. I quickly had to close it down. I made a mental note, conflicted between looking forward to getting home and seeing the rest of your work, and wishing you’d put a Not Safe For Work filter on it.

I absolutely agree with your point of view, but with EEO legislation nationally the way it is I’m not prepared to risk my job in defence of our common philosophy on the beauty and purity of the unclothed form. NSFW is for this reason, in my opinion, and safeguards your fans and potential customers (yes, and the swooning wowsers too I guess) from a potentially messy situation at work.

Cheers,
Ken

Hey Tony,

I think what you’re looking for is the Sex Discrimination Act 1984, particularly Section 28A…particularly the qualifier “the person harassed would be offended”. Neither you nor I may be offended by content we’re looking at, but someone else may be and this is the bit that bites us on the bum.

Sections 105 and 105 also have people running scared too.

Hope this helps. If you have any further queries, you may want to try giving the Human Rights and Equal Opportunities Commission a ring.

Cheers,
Ken

Don’t ever get the impression Tony that I disagree with you, because I don’t. I absolutely agree with what you’re saying. Both in form and function, the human body is a beautiful thing (both genders included).

Beauty, as I understand it at least, is a pure thing and therefore free from lechery. I think most people would agree with this as a statement of fact, but there is a vocal minority that think ANY nudity is sexual by definition.

It’s these people that take advantage of laws that were enacted in the first place to protect people who are genuinely being discrimintated against or harassed. It’s a shame, but that’s the current state of play in the workforce today.

The reason I made comment in this thread in the first place was because I think your work deserves to be available to everyone, but given the way things are in the workplace at the moment the last thing I would want for you is to have new patrons first experience of your work soured by reprimand or dismissal.

Best of luck with everything,
Ken

Thanks Ken,

Appreciate your support. Can assure you that I will do all I can to bring more awareness and balance to the issue in workplaces.

Best Wishes Tony.

I have 3 girls ages 9, 13 and 15. I personally think it’s perfectly healthy for adults and children alike to see artistic nudity. I find that it’s generally the insecure people that find it offensive. I often use nude stock photography to create my manipulations and I welcome my girls to the computer screen. Appreciate the body for what it is, flaws and all. I suggest to those that find nudity offensive to take a few pictures of yourself. Doesn’t have to be nude…..make it sultry though! It’s an empowering experience!
On the other hand I do feel that viewing nudity should be optional.
That being said, I think that your eye is a wonderful one, keep up the good work!

Hi Toni,

well I have just had one of my erotic images pulled,
as it apparently
” breaches RB guidelines with regards to the issue of ‘manual spreading “

most unfair I say, as there are a number of images on RB that run close to the wind, also there are many male nudes with semi or building erections, like “Myndfull” for instance which don’t seem to worry the censor.
however my image titled “Nice touch” which was darkened by strong shadows, & I felt appropriately lit to create the fantasy or illusion of what was happening, a female on all fours from behind, reaching for or touching herself. she was not “manually spreading” IMHO
I even reviewed the image and made it darker with out real detail, but no, it was not on, i was pulled,

so what do you make of that, seems some sort of double standard ?

is this right or a little unfair !

YES, I do see that too, however also RB tends to turn a blind eye to the many semi or even full erections posted, one of which is displayed swinging in the wind, titled “garden of eden” in ” the sensual word” group by professor ?

I could always send you my image if you’d like to see it, not sure how though, maybe I give you my email address is irpphoto@satlink.com.au

cheers