Lois Bryan

And I use the sRBG setting…...

Hello Lois I have always saved my files with sRGB profile its pretty much standard and its what most all online printers look for. I’ve never order anything from redbubble. Maby you can order a card or something and compare it to what you see on your monitor. As far as redubble monkying with the files not sure if I care for that. But I have order from mpix and kodak site and always have had good results and the pics have always match what I print at home on my HP 8750. Its also good to have a calibrated montior. I don’t use one of the hardware things but have gotten good results using gama charts ect from the net. My 2 cents and color management is confusing LOL I just try to keep it simple LOL. Have a good one.

Whoops! Forgot to add: I’ve deleted the ones I couldn’t “brighten” without messing them up. And I’m trying to make things now that are brighter to begin with…

Hi Lois,

I share your concern. I order some calendars and they were way darker than they should. It has left me scratching my head as last years batch was fine and I haven’t changed any of my processes.
My monitor is calibrated weekly (quite obsessive about it actually) and my file formats are sRGB for uploading.
Especially difficult when a couple of my images are quite subtle in both lighting and colour :-(
Not much help, I know but you’re not alone in your questioning.

Hi Lois,,,,I have just spent doing a 5 day workshop on printing and colour management,,, now, I have been told to avoid using sRBG,,,(s apparently stands for satanic!!!)... and go with RGB, or process in LAB… anyway,, the only way, to get sensational and perfect prints is to do a calibration, then to use a printing profile in Photoshop. A printing profile requires time, and some effort,,, you need to get the specifics of Redbubble (or who ever you get your printing done from,,, and ps,, you can have multiple profiles set up) of their printer, the paper they use, ect,,, You also need to make sure your screen is colour calibrated, and also ensure that your monitor is not directly sitting in daylight,,ie a window behind it,,, ect… There is a lot of work involved in this,, but the main thing is to have your monitor calibrated, and I guess to stick with what works best for you,,, as I have stated I have just been taught to avoid using sRGB with everything!! I hope I havent confused you,,, because I have confused myself…lol

I believe, but not positive, that RB uses CMYK not RGB or sRGB…

Hi dear Lois…i have orderd a few calenders and the color was not right (to dark or not bright enough) i complaned and after a few very nice mails i got two new printed calendars and now i was very happy with it all.
So maybe it is something in the RB printer settings after all i know there where more complains over the color.

Hi Lois. Cant find sRGB in photoshop. Hmmmm. Still uploading j’pegs and the colour match on printed stuff seems OK. I noticed recently that the max for an upload is 60Mg. But keep forgetting. LOL.
When I do (remember) shall start uploading biger files.

As far as your processing is concerned, Lois, make sure your monitor is calibrated regularly. I re-calibrate mine every 4 weeks. If you’re printing your own stuff at home, make sure your printer is calibrated.
For what it’s worth, the majority of people I know use the Adobe color space to process their images (irrespective of what the camera might be set up for), or sometimes Lab, but never sRGB. Unfortunately, the web can only cope with sRGB for display. If you use Adobe, the metadata in your image file will reflect this and RB really should print accordingly.
As far as RB goes, printing using sRGB will not result in the sort of changes a number of commenters have talked about .. the images will be slightly flatter than an Adobe original, but that’s all. If RB are messing things up at their end, this is quite a serious issue and they need to be taken to task for it.

Quite shocking to read all this!!
Will follow this thread. I have no advise as I am very new to RB. But of course I wish to know the how and what…...

Hi Lois – very good journal. I too have had to get a calendar order replaced due to oversaturation of colours. I luckily had a calendar from last year with one of the same images in one of my new calendars and the colours were very different. I asked RB about it, I sent them a photo of the two images side by side, and then they agreed it was not right and have had the order replaced.
I have no idea how to calibrate my printer and monitor, but I guess it would be wise to do so.
Just so you know, it’s only this year’s calendars that are “wrong” in colour saturation…last year’s calendars and anything else I ordered from them were fine. Hmmmmm
Cheers, S.

I have also read some of these complaints Lois and I will be following this discussion and hopefully there will be a reply from RB. Could somebody please tell us how to calibrate our screen without going to spend a lot of money on special equipment.

Lois, maybe I can help just little, since I went for all yours ops recently.

1) sRGB – color management which used for the monitors, internet mostly. What I understand in the screen we add Red, Green, Blue – to get colors, mix all 3 – get you black, non – is white.
2) When we print we subtract colors, the base start from paper type. if we do not have RB paper profile, we really can not do color management by yourself.

I printed same pictures in the same place outside of RB without color management and they all came different.

Most web site will give you color profile to load to your PC, and than you can work in their color space , to be sure that colors match, and tell them do not fix your colors. I have not done this yet, but planning to do on some prints, which I did not like the way the came out with their color adjustments. Paper also make a big diffidence. I printed some on Kodak Endurance Metallic – and they were so awesome.

I done so much misspell. better look here
Color space

Monitor Calibration

Profile Usage

Lois, I worry about this too because I have printed a few photos myself at home and was very upset. I have a 4×6 inch photo printer. The default setting is to enhance the color. I now make sure this is turned off. However, a light blue sky had a hint of lilac to it- OK, but not perfect. This caused me to wonder what happens at RB, since this extra saturation seems to be the DEFAULT!
One thing I have always done is to try to view my online photos on different computers to see what they may look like to others. Like~ They looked fine at a friend’s house, OK at the local library and way too saturated at the last motel lobby where I checked them! I want the public to see what I see…and this seems impossible. This is when I decided the most important factor is probably the human judgment of the print operator and I hoped RB felt the same way!!
I will continue reading this in case there is a specific solution, but I actually believe we are at the mercy of the particular RB employee who does the printing that day. If I had this job, I would try to do my best on EACH print.
However, none of this seems to have much to do with sales. People love what they love, and I don’t believe buyers are recalibrating their screens in order to make a decision to purchase art. They want what THEY see on their screens, whatever that may be! lol It’s up to RB to produce a good looking product…to print what looks good to THEM on their screens.
This is a scary area to me because, like you, I may spent 30 hours or more making tiny adjustments on a single photo. Then I have to accept that even the onscreen appearance to strangers is beyond my control. ☺

I can also add one site to Luda’s list, I often return to this site as some of my work for publication is worked on from different computers:
Normankoren

Oh I should add: Don’t be scared by all the detail on that site, it does contain a lot of info but it’s worth it in my opinion.

I personally think people get too involved with the color calibration issue. I use Windows and let the operating system control the color for my monitor and Irfanview & Photoscape control the print color for my inkjet printer and my images in Redbubble. I do not change anything manually. The only thing I have a problem with is if I let Windows do a print directly to my inkjet without using one of the Photo programs, it prints a little dark. The images on my monitor look just like the prints from Redbubble for the most part anyway.

Good luck, Rany

Thank you all so so so much!!!! I want to add that I have Huey Pro monitor calibrating system … also … I frequently go to my local Apple Store … there are a kazillion computers and monitors set up there and I type in my little RedBubble address on nearly every single one and check out my site there regularly. So. It’s not so much the monitor calibration that I’m talking about … I have some confidence that my monitor is about right where it ought to be … BUT … it’s the internal settings in Photoshop that control how PRINTERS see what i’ve created that worry me. In my ancient Photoshop … I go to “Image” … then “Mode” … then “Assign Profile” and / or “Convert to Profile.” (Confusing … wondering what the heck’s the difference?? lol.) But anyhow, if I pop an image in Photoshop, then go to these two configuration thingies and start clicking away on all the choices … every option gives the image a different look!! My question is … although RB states they prefer “sRGB”:http://support.redbubble.com/faqs/selling/size-format-colour … (check the link) … does this mean I should be going back over my images, converting them all, tinkering away, and re-uploading??? _THUD If that’s the case … shouldn’t we all be TOLD this??? I mean … LOUD AND CLEAR??? Like … maybe a warning thingie every time we upload??? And of course the second issue of the printer adding additional saturation and exposure adjustments and sharpening just makes my hair stand on end!! I MEAN!!!! REALLY!! That’s gotta stop!!! Also, to address the calendar issue (and here I’m going to be just going on rumor, so who knows if it’s true) ... but I heard that the calendars from last year, which we all loved, were from Australia. But the ones that are bad from this year are from the collaboration between RB and Blurb (the book people). OH … and don’t forget to give your images 300dpi!!!! We don’t hear much about that either!!! I think I have Maureen’s headache from last night, now, lolol!!!!! Seriously, thank you all again for hopping in with your thoughts and guidance. SO appreciated!!!!!

don’t know why the link didn’t work … sorry!!

Hi Lois,

Just checked my sRGB and it is the same as IEC61966-2.1
As you quite rightly supposing, if RB prefer sRGB then it would mean a completely different profile assignment to each image from, say, Adobe RGB. I thought this was done thought the upload process though? Maybe I’m wrong. I know some sites do.

I couldn’t be more confused now.
Seriously.
I’ve already given out as gifts some of the “dark” calendars and can’t afford to send RedBubble my other ones to show the how dark the images are. Not over-staurated but dark…like really dark.

I always use sRGB..I can’t afford to go to printers to see how my files turn out with them. My little printer isn’t good for anything but VERY basic stuff, like text, etc.

When I saw my calendars I was so sad!

There’s not much I can do.
The other issue is t-shirts, which RedBubble has already talked about (color-wise). Now I’m nervous about posting them, too…at least the RedBubble image looks more like the outcome of the shirt. But why my image file can’t produce a “bright” shirt is out of my control: apparently it’s the ink+the material and they’re working on it.
Maybe that’s the calendar problem, too?
Sorry for rambling here, Lois; I’m just feeling a little helpless.

BTW….I’ve pretty much decided not to do one of the Blurb books. The only one I can buy is the tiny B&W one, which is kind of silly, given all my colors…LOL…but I may change my mind this weekend. Need to look into it more.

Maybe this situation (about printing and colors) is why there aren’t a lot more sales. Who would be willing to spend >$100 to gamble with the image they receive? I’m sure that the prints (framed, etc.) are crisp and clear, but the darkness issue is real. And apparently the over-saturation one is, too.

PS…...I understand better now about how people can have their screens “set” wrong…didn’t realize that before!!
thank you for posting this Lois!!!!!!

I have ordered prints from mpix going on 4yrs now and have been very happy. One thing you might check is that a lot of online printer have an auto correct mode. Make sure you turn it off.

(I’ve got a Mac now, but this still applies…)

This past week, I printed a lot of posy=t cards, note cards and prints for myself. I have read many articles on todays typical flat panel monitors being to bright and that there are monitors specifically for photography work. Expensive though. I found that what looked a little washed out on my screen direct from my canon DSLR printed great for color and saturation. What I adjusted for a pleasing view on my monitor, printed too dark. I think this is a very in depth subject with many possibilities affecting the out come of a printed item. I am just about ready too take all pictures for sale off Redbubble and start over uploading when I know they will print good. Meaning I have some serious editing to do on my pictures that are for sale. On my own printer, I can see that the end product is good or bad. I have a lab that will be doing my printing and they have a option to adjust the levels before printing. The company I use to store and sell my prints for my website also wants me to use their software for editing the final product to upload for sale. They send to the lab of my choice who ships direct to the customer. This is a very broad subject with a lot to learn

doesn’t seem to be a simple and inexpensive way to deal with this issue.

Maybe I’ll switch to doing all drawings/cartoons. In black ink on white paper.
Too bad I can’t draw…BWAHAH!!

::sigh::

I’m using the AdobeRBG color setting, & have had fantastic prints.
I’m not sure if we can get the color profile from RB…. that’d be a big help.
I’ll be very keen to know what RB’s response will be.

Hi Lois a great thread and very important area to get our heads round some clarity.. will be keeping an eye open for any response here too ….

cheers
:))

Glad you posted this…you stated it much better than I could have!! Midzing said everything I was told yesterday by the local guy….sRGB was really a monitor color profile designed I believe by Microsoft, so printers and monitor would talk the same lingo….making what we see on the monitor be what is printed!! :^)

In photoshop go file,down to scripts choose image processer, select folder when your image are and choose a destination folder make sure you tick the box srgb and click run, this will deposit a copy of images in destination folder with srgb colour profile. Redbubble request files in this format as their printers are calibrated to this..in my experience never over sharpen your images as most companies apply a slight degree of sharpening before print.just my views and help..

Oh just to add if an error message ocurs while running this script normmally means original file has no colour profile tagged to it , adjust affected image and restart script..

Great question and thread Lois…....early this year I received some cards of my shots from RB and they were generally on the dark side too – useable but dissapointing. Half way through the year, someone from RB bmailed saying they were looking for a UK printer…...I believe the UK ones came from Germany?.......no idea what the outcome was. I also had some prints done for comparison with Photobox online, which were better than RB but still slightly dark. I use sRGB colour in camera & PS, (I changed it to Adobe RGB once and didn’t like the colours on the monitor), anyway I recently had some shots printed by two local printers, one set were too light and garish, but the other set were perfect! Exactly what I saw on the monitor, and one of these latter prints has won an award at a local regional competition. An Epson rep recently printed out the same images at a camera club night from my USB stick with very good results too. He also said though that monitor calibration was vital! So who knows…...a minefield of a subject, one I will watch with interest as I have decided to get my own printer for the control. So much to learn…... Await with interest RB’s response….....

Hi Lois,
I’m sure this isn’t going to be of much help but I thought I would give you my two cents worth anyway. I don’t calibrate my monitor, I don’t use photoshop and I don’t really know what you guys are talking about most of the time. What I can tell you is that I ordered a couple of my own products recently ( keep in mind that nobody else is ordering them ) to see what kind of a job the bubble would do at reproducing my images and I have to say that they were Bang On. I was impressed to say the least.

Ray

One thing I’d like to point out to everyone … if we create an image that looks good on our monitors … and on ALL the monitors that we can get our eyeballs on to see if the color / saturation /quality etc is uniform … then THAT’s how we will sell it. ‘Cause it’ll look good. But can you imagine if we all uploaded images that were washed out and too bright and blah … so that they would print out well?? Those would never sell!!!!! LOL!!! Wowzer … talk about a catch-22!!! _{laughing and banging head on desk} We just need specific information from RB if we want our darker images to print out right.

This is very interesting reading Lois. As several people have said, last year’s calenders were great and I had no axe to grind there. But this year I won’t be ordering from RB because I had them print one so’s I could vet it and I was horrified at how dark some of the photos were. For comparison I printed those same pics on my Canon Pixma printer and they came out absolutely spot on. I may be old fashioned but there used to be a thing called Quality Control, which was rigidly enforced. Sadly it seems to have gone out of the window, probably due to RB’s rapidly expanding workflow. This is all a great pity because generally the overall quality of the RB calenders – presentation wise – is top class and I hate to see it being destroyed by sloppy printing. Peter

Is THIS the problem???? Are we asking apples to taste like oranges?? Meaning: If we create and UPLOAD an image with sRGB specifications so that the image WILL LOOK GOOD ON THE INTERNET (the apples) ... are we expecting those specs (sRGB) to then translate information to RB’s PRINTERS (the oranges) ... but which need a totally different language (AdobeRGB or whatever the heck it is?) Is THIS the problem? If soooooo ….

Hi Lois
sRGB is a colour space used by Hewlett Packard and Microsoft as an Internet standard. ased on the characteristics of an ‘average’ PC monitor. it is the Photoshop default but has a restricted gamut. I work on a Mac but was advised years ago by an expert printer and Mac advocate to always ensure that I used sRGB for best results!
I too have had trouble with the calendar prints being very dark, but Redbubble reprinted them without charging, but I had to lighten the images first. I think the printing profile is not compatible with the paper they use for the calendars. My other redbubble prints have been perfect.

sorry – the second sentence should read …’standard based on the characteristics’...
Maggie.

I do love my Mac…...it’s a GEM!
Any time I get frustrated with it, it’s usually my fault!

LOL…thanks again, Lois!!!!!!!!

Oh! and thank you about the cartoons!!!!!!!

talk about a catch-22!!! laughing and banging head on desk, Easy Lois we don’t want to lose you. Lets keep it simple sRGB tag file is the way to go for on line printers unless they will accept a another profile such as adobe rgb. To tell you the truth I don’t see a big difference between the two. I have tried both when printing at home and its not worth the trouble to me. I sent a file to my printer HP 8750 with color management handled by the printer or mpix or kodak website and they always are spot on with my monitor as long as ones monitor are calib also as Steve Taylor mention no auto correction. With dark prints most of the time the monitor is way to bright. LCD’s out of the box are like that. My 24 inch I had to tone it down brightness at 10 and constrast at 36. Again keep it simple works for me. Great read here also lots of great input.

Well, gotta add my 2 cents worth… It sounds like there was a problem with the printer itself if alot of the calendars, note cards, etc were getting printed darker than they should have. Has anyone ordered any of these items lately? I actually ordered a print this week. When I receive it I will check it with my screen image to see if it matches or it’s too dark, and let y’all know. But if RB has taken back a lot of imaged items from earlier this year because they were too dark, chances are that problem has been fixed by a rehaul of the printer/plotter that was handling those types of images.

colour profiles
may be of help, but have just checked on knowledge base RB say upto 60 meg files and their printers are calibrated to sRGB, believe they are HP but don’t quote me on that.Best to google search or visit Adode for instrustions on how to batch colour change in your version of photoshop.
Regards Mark.

Hi Lois…
I heard about your printing issue and here I am. I recently received ten of my own calendars that I purchased for Christmas gifts. Immediately I thought the photos looked dark, but I thought maybe it had something to do with my own computer/photos, and didn’t say anything. I’m happy to hear it wasn’t me!!! They will be just fine as gifts, but not the quality I expected. I’m willing to pay more for better quality, but now I feel cheated. Last year I purchased calendars from a different site, and the printing was noticably better (and much cheaper). I love this site and I’m not one to return items or complain, but now I feel like I should be entitled to a partial refund. Thanks!!!! Lori

Hi Lois, I read most of this thread, and like Lori, I thought it was me. I am so glad you brought this topic up. I have purchased some cards and was very unhappy with them. I thought they were way too dark, but thought I was doing something wrong. I have been hesitant to purchase any calendars. Maybe if RB knows that we are not buying because everything comes out too dark, they will do something about it. Anyway, I’m more confused than before, because I’m not sure if I have to do something different or not. Some people seemed pleased with the results!!! What to do!!! I will continue to watch this thread! Cheers, Barbara

I know what you mean about the lighter versions! I lightened mine digitally by 2 analogue stops made them not for sale and referred buyers to the original version for cards and prints. After you’ve made the calendar you can immediately remove them from the site. I found that it was the highly saturated images that were the worst affected. I do my own printing Epson printer and Epson paper and they match the screen image exactly. It’s a redbubble calendar paper/profile problem!

Lois - The images that I received were not too dark, they were a good reproduction of the images as seen on my monitor. I should point out that the products I ordered were laminated prints and not calendars or cards.

Ray

Boy, you are fast !

Ok Lois….I already gave up…. if you can tell me a quick way to find out my color calibration this might help. I can tell you this…. some of my photos were not edited using Photoshop….does the software make any difference?

I’m using sRGB! Never paid much attention to it!

When in Photoshop or any other Creative Suite application you can select the sRGB setting in the Colour Settings dialogue box. In Photoshop and In/Design you can also manually convert the colours to sRGB using the Edit > Convert To Profile command.

I think everyone is under the impression that RB does thier own printing…THEY DON’T, THEY FARM OUT THE WORK! This may be the contributing factor that last years calendars were stunning (in house control – local company) and this years poor quality…different companies are producing the work. I have two shipments of calendars one from Iowa and the other from California…totally different paper weights and print image quality! With that said…every company in the world may not be using all Epsons or HP’s…if like Fortner state…right out of the camera…prints are wonderful…the stored info isn’t altered thus no problems. But when one alters thier images we push the color gamut, printers can only be close with their reditition of our work. Its still a computer being told a set of values to the printer which we are finding out there isn’t a common ground in the commercial printing arena!

Hi Lois,
I have just ordered a couple of canvases of my darker, grungy surf prints (one of my hubby ‘True Blue’ (Pg 3 in my folio), two of my son ‘Surf Grunge’ (Pg 2 in my folio) and ‘The Surfer’ (Pg 5). These are quite dark, so I will definitely let you know how they are when they arrive. I am hoping they will be spot on as thats how I want them…. We’ll see :))

I went through this with my computer. I made the shots look great on the screen and when printed had too much contrast and my people were too red. When I want them printed I lighten them and decrease the saturation. This was the printing company I usually use, not with RB. So I have learned to tone it down for printing.

Hi, I have done a few courses and they ALL say RGB all the way. I have had issues with my screen image being different to what is printed in print shops but I must say that my RB calendars have turned out quite well. Having said that I do have to admit to lightening them somewhat in case of the sort of results that you have been experiencing. Can’t win.

Just to confuse the image your camera also has a colour space. Most of the smaller cameras are sRGB, the SLRs can usually choose between sRGB and RGB.

You must remember that an image file is essentially a bucketful of numbers .. with those numbers being mapped to colors by your processing package. If you are intending to print directly from the camera, without any Photoshopping, the printer will map those numbers to colors using the color space set in your camera. If, on the other hand, you process the image in Photoshop, the mapping will be done using the color space you specify in Photoshop .. irrespective of what your camera setting is.
If you upload your images to RB, Flickr or whatever, the images can only be displayed using the sRGB color space (because the web can’t cope with anything else). The uploading process takes care of any conversion from a “non-sRGB” color space to sRGB. So, the images you (and potential buyers) will see on their monitors will be displayed using sRGB. It’s RB’s responsibility to produce prints which match that as closely as possible .. which is not bloody rocket science! If they screw up, it’s really up to the buyer to complain .. volubly!!

Hi Lois – so I checked and my setting was RGB. So I opened one of my photos and changed the mode to CMYK, and it looks different, but still not nearly as dark as my calendars. I just received a message from RB that my card order is coming. I responded (don’t know if it will be read), regarding concerns about print quality. I’ll see if I get an answer. I do recall that last year my calendar order came from Australia and it was beautiful… and this year it came from somehwere in the US.

Hi Lois,

I have gone through my settings as well. Used my colorMunki to recalibrate both monitor and my printer and everything seems fine.
I think the issue is with RB.
My front image of my latest calendar is Glen Strathfarrar – The Light and, I know the lighting and colours are very subtle, the finished product through my door was the wee “s” of the river and brighter area where the sun had broken through. The rest was dark, probably, as much as a stop and a half of exposure. The rest of the pages where the same.
A wee check on the quality before sending should have happen? Maybe? I know they must have loads of orders to go through but….................
As Karl suggests, a wee bit of complaining is in order :-)

OMG there are a lot of comments here… I’ll just say when I rec’d my calendars that was my very first thought too, way too dark some of the images… I have read and heard that they should be RGB for printing and best at 300 dpi. I think it is all in who you have print it….Other places I work with are just fine…RB’s seem a bit darker. That’s all folks.

Oh now most of this is way beyond me, but I will say that things I have bought off Rb are darker than they appear on the screen. That includes other peoples work too!

Great news…. I received a response from RB about my dark calendars. I was instructed to take photos of the calendars in natural light – so I did so outside in the daylight. They reviewed my pictures and I was notified that my order will be reprinted. I was very pleased with the quick response. I have some other orders pending…. and I’m hoping they don’t arrive dark. Thanks for sharing this problem, otherwise I thought it was just me!!!

have rec’d. dark printed image, but did not know why. great thread lois.