Irish

BarryNorton1, 4 months ago

I think that you are over reacting a bit, RB is not primarily a sales site in the retail sense ,but rather a place to find like minded friends! artists/photographers to exchange ideas and opinions. your work can be copyrighted on RB

Craig Hender, 4 months ago

Dont be discouraged! You are a lovely person with it seems a very big heart. It does suck that there are arsholes out there that can do this to us, and i do not know what can be done unfortunately. I am relatively new to this website caper myself so am still learning all the online correctness (so to speak). I dont really have enough time to search through other websites, so i would not have a clue if any of my images have been taken? I was under the impression though that if an image was copied from RB, the resolution is so low it would be useless for anything other than online viewing?
As for RB getting most of the sale, hmmm. What i can say is that if you do it all yourself, it can be costly and very time consuming. And then there is all the payment and postage etc. This is just my personel opinion of course but i am happy for RB to handle all of that for me as i just do not have enough spare time at the moment.
So anyway, hang in there Mil, you have lovely work and i would very much like to see your progression as an artist. I have no doubt at all that you will become a favourite around the bubble, for art and personality. Smile, be happy and keep snapping!

Irish in reply to BarryNorton1’s comment, 4 months ago

BUT RB makes a nice penny off of our work, that dosent bother you at all!

boydmiller, 4 months ago

I agree with Barry,,,,the images are so small and so low resoluton that they are practically useless to copy….you could not use them for much…except to maybe make drawings from them….be joyful that someone likes your work so much that the want to copy it…

Irish in reply to Craig Hender’s comment, 4 months ago

Thks Craig!

kcranmer, 4 months ago

Hey Mil perfectly understandable and you have every right to feel as angry as you do. It’s a very sad world we live in and unfortunately every site goes through this same problem. I belong to many many photo sites and I have not heard of one site that has not had images stolen.

There is something else you can do to highly protect your images. It’s a site called digimarc.com…if you register your photos with digimarc, believe it or not you can actually TRACE your images if they have been stolen…you can see exactly where they went, and exactly what is being done with your images. I plan on using digimarc someday when I create my photography/art in more of a business form…because unfortunately digimarc isn’t exactly cheap.

Another thing that helps me is..usually if one member is on a photo site, they are also going to be members of other photo sites….which therefore, if they see your work somewhere else, under a different username…a light bulb will go off…I’ve seen that happen so many times….but in reality mil…there really is nothing anyone can do (at the moment) to protect our works. All we can hope is if it is stolen, the jerk is caught and punished.

As far as the commission you receive here, yes it is very minimal…and understand your concern there as well. I was actually paying for sites so I can sell my work…and found that I wasn’t selling a single thing…I figured my commissions may be small here, but I don’t have to pay a member fee to use the bubble…but really I find that I enjoy meeting new artists, gaining new ideas, and meeting new friends…which to me is priceless.

I hope that will help comfort you a little…and you have every right to feel the way you do…I feel the same as far as people being able to steal images online. I used to often wonder if my images are floating out there in cyber space..and if they are, it’s all a matter of time. ALSO…I keep my originals…that way if I do find an image stolen on another site…BAMN THERE GOING DOWN lol!

hilarydougill, 4 months ago

Unfortunately RB has the cost of creating and producing the goods and therefore they get the lion’s share, For me it is enough to be on here and have the friendship and comradie of this site. I don’t think there are many stealing much because it does have copyright written over it and by the time they have cropped it to take it off there won’t be much left. Don’t worry about it sweetheart, if Big G wants you to have money for St Judes, he will give you it., never fear. Blessings and love you lots Hilary

wendyw, 4 months ago

I have to say that I am with you Irish! When I first became a member here I was on the same high as you….I couldn’t get enough…Then my husband said”Did you read the fine print?” I did and was very much dissapointed by how little I would make if I actually sold a photo! It is also discouraging to know that people can as you said steal one’s art, tweek it, callit theirs and make a bundle! I do know however, that like you, I am learning all the ins and outs of my system and photography in general….There are some amazing people on this site, with amazing artistic abilities! In this case I think that the good outweighs the bad…. I will continue to use this site as a learning tool. I think that your best is yet to come!!!! As well as mine….Don’t lose your high!!! When you are ready to truly sell, you will know what to do! OH, I find it to be very moving that you are giving all proceeds to charity! Another good soul! Keep your chin up!

Russell Fry, 4 months ago

Hi Mil,

This isn’t just a RB problem, it’s everywhere. I’ve read quite a few articles from high profile photographers regarding the same issue. I figure that if they think that mine is worth stealing, I must be getting better at shooting and post production. LOL

Russ

Jim Caldwell, 4 months ago

I suppose RB states they are not responsible for stolen art. I haven’t seen that anywhere though.

I, personally would not be happy to find an exact duplicate of my efforts anywhere I haven,t authorized.

If this happens, I have access to attorneys that would love to sue and the company or individual would be quite unhappy.

It might be noted that art is very cheap on legit sites, for commercial use and stealing ours would be taking a huge chance for little gain.

I use this site because it’s another tool for the public to access what I do.

Anyone thinking they are going to make a lot of money here is self deceived.

Thanks for opening the issue though.

Love

Leah Highland, 4 months ago

I’m not sure what I could say that the others before me haven’t.
I understand the $ frustration, that’s why I’ve gone out on my own and have some work in local shops. Even then, I make little profit (a bit more than on here)
Despite the copy problems and little profit here on RB I love it! I’ve made some steadfast friends here and that’s worth more than anything to me! I see RB as publicity for me rather than a place for me to sell my work anyhow.
Hang in there Mil, were all going through the same crap! XO-Leah

Scott Denny, 4 months ago

It has crossed my mind about people stealing photos. I have copied my own photos from this site to see the quality. It is really rather poor. The images are of kb size and have a dpi of 72. Some manipulation can be done to increase the size of the image but if you have little to work with from the start…you wont get much in the end.

If sounds to me like many sites have the same problem so I am not going to get upset with RB. There are probabaly some precautions that can be done and I hope RB researches and implements something.

The digimarc idea sounds great but if it is expensive, most people here would probably not pursue it as an option. Hopefully something can be done. If someone ends up making big bucks on one of my photos I hope I find out and if I do, I still have the right to go after them. The bummer is that there are probabaly images being used that most of us will never know about.

As far as the money RB makes on sales….When you upload a photo you are asked to note your desired mark up percent. The difference between the cost of an item and its retail (cost + mark up percent) is the gross profit. Right now I use a 20% markup. The cost of goods supplied from RB is $2.85 for a card. If someone were to purchase a card from me they would pay $3.42. My gross profit is $.57 RB is charging $2.85 as a cost to cover paper, ink, processing, and the cost of running this website. That is just the way it is. That is our cost of goods. If you want to make more raise your markup percent.

Now…the tricky thing is if you raise your markup percent too high, will your retail be too high to generate sales?

Lets look at a framed print with a markup of 20%. A small framed print for RB has a cost of $76, which will retail at $91.20 with a 20% markup. The gross profit is $15.20. If a person thinks they should be making more and raise their markup to lets say 40%, they will have a gross profit of $30.40 but the retail will be a crazy $106.40. The question you have to ask yourself…will someone pay $106 for one of your prints? I feel they will not pay that for one of mine so I keep the markup at 20%.

The retail price is what a customer pays. They dont know the cost or the gross profit. I have only sold 1 card here. This is not a site for selling. I am sure there are those that have sold more but this is not a retail photo store. RB to me is a photo sharing site with the option to sell. In most cases you are probably selling to other artists within this community. I also think the majority of the RB’ers are here to share and comment, not to buy.

I am not complaining. I love RB. It is far better than other sites I have participated in. I think if you really want to protect your work and sell it, you need to go to stock photo sites. Then again, even stock photo sites have had their problems with security.

The best way to protect your work is to not post it on the net and sell it locally. I am working on the selling locally part. I will still continue to post here on RB. Like I said….If I ever find that someone has made a mint on one of my photos….great!!! They saved me a lot of work and I will see them in court.

:-)

carlotta peacock, 4 months ago

I agree with you Mil, but when you find so many artist in the one bubble, hey enjoy your time here and don’t worry so much, we are all artist and responding to each other is a valuable a lesson as life it self.

billyboy, 4 months ago

Millie, there’s lots of replies and I haven’t read them all, but I am so with Kellie on this. I also paid for a site whos ‘job’ it was to sell my stuff, and in the end all I got was some trash emails. So I thought, why not just get some pennies and make people happy with my stuff. If later I decide to exhibit, I wouldn’t think the fact that someone out there is jerking around with my pictures (hey, this is a BIG planet) would lose me any sales anyway.

I actually had the pleasure of selling a couple of framed prints on RB and have sold a fair number of cards and a few shirts, but so far have only made about $60 US. Who cares. I’m having more fun and interaction with my art here on RB than ever before in my life. I don’t like the idea of theft any more than anyone else. But putting it all in context, I’m not losing much sleep!

BySilent, 4 months ago

the only time you can be 100% that your work will not be taken off a web site is to not post any work at all. Right click is nothing (every image you look at ends up in your browser cache) but an idea to placate the concerns from people that used the net back in the 90’s when graphics first started to appear. (yes some of us remember those days when it was text only Internet)

The high quality images that are uploaded for the print program are not what shows up viewable on the site, the high res images are stored away from public view by the bubble so only low resolution images are available to be copied if they are, there are many things you can do but to worry about having your work taken by a small group defeats the purpose of the Art Communities.

The communities of artists give us outlets to potential buyers of our work we would never even know existed, accept commissions, talk with fellow artists, share techniques and tips to other artists and feel the spirit of what art means to us all.

Irish, 4 months ago

Well let me just say THANKS to everyone for taking the time to comment and give me feedback…maybe Im over reacting, or maybe Im just PMSing,...lol…no really here is the thing….I was never on a photo /art site before so when i got on here and saw the AMAZING quality of work, I was blown away, INSPIRED but blown away….anyway, when I heard about people so easily stealing work, all I could think of was how CRAZY that is…I mean the majority of work I have seen on here is EXCELLENT, so it just seems unfair.
As far as RB, Im noyt saying its only them, i know its not, and I know they have EXPENSES also, BUT with that being said, maybe they could do something like if a certain artist sells a certain number per month they get 10% more of a cut…...thats fair, because homestly the amazing art on here is WHY THEY EXIST in the first place so those artists that are TRULY GREAT should get a little extra…thats all Im sayin.
But let me say this, if I see anyones work on any site, I will the first to tell ya, THAT PISSES ME OFF…..I mean no one here is going to tell me that if someone bought a card of one of your art pieces and paid 3 bucks and then they scanned it and tweaked it or WHATEVER and then went and sold it to a gallery or something for thousands that you wouldnt be PISSED!!!!
Ya know ya would!!!!
AND alot of stuff on here NOT MINE….lol….. is GALLERY MATERIAL!!!!!!! So thats all Im sayin!!!!!
I could probably make more at a PTA sale with some pics than here….and all RB Management dont start hatin on me…Im just sayin…a little incentive makes the creative juices flow better!!!!!
ALL OF YOU ARE RIGHT about the people on the site though, It amazes me how people will help you learn and really go out of there way to be of help, to everyone who has helped me…and there are sooo many, I THANKYOU VERY MUCH!!!!!
And I also just love the diverse personalities on here, someone is always making me laugh or smile, and thats always a good thing…...so NO HATE MAIL from RB Managemnt…...Im probably Pre-Menopausal and It could get ugly….lol….Im just venting!
Thanks everyone for helping me lighten up a bit with the whole situation, appreciate it!
Millie

Robxavier, 4 months ago

Sorry everyone but I’m originaly from NJ. One thing I learned as a cild was if you walk around with your pants around your ankles eventually someone is gonna stick it to ya…lol….This could be alot less of a headache if RB would just disable the rightclick feature. I’m sticking by Mil on this one :)

Irish in reply to Robxavier’s comment, 4 months ago

YAY…thks Rob…lol…thats a Jersey Boy for ya! See its a JERSEY thing I guess???

nanarhodes, 4 months ago

Yeah right click diabled would put an end to it.. so why have they not ?

Irish, 4 months ago

jUST HAD A FELLOW RBer TRY IT AND HE GOT ONE OF MY PICS crystal clear…SO there ya have it!

David Librach, 4 months ago

Hi Mil, welcome to RedBubble! :)

This topic comes out quite a bit and here’s some great information about how your work is protected.

Even though I am a member of the RB team, I am also an artist and sell my work in galleries and elsewhere. I too have taken copies of my work on the site and tried to make prints of it. I was amazed at how poor the quality was and how you really can’t get anything more than a barely passible 4×6 image out of it. The quality difference is incredible. There is absolutely no way anyone would be able to pawn my work off as their own and sell it to a gallery. I would not be here if that wasn’t the case.

blamo, 4 months ago

i hope they paid for it LOL good discussion thanks mil

Jennifer Woodward, 4 months ago

Hey Mil,

I had a few concerns a while back about copywrite issues, and there is some info from redbubble about it in the forums.

From what I understand about file sizes, they need to be very large in order to produce high quality prints. For example: If you right-clicked and copied one of your images straight from your profile or portfolio, the image copied would be the same size and quality as the one it was copied from. Now if you tried to increase that size, it would become pixelated and useless.

I would be a bit hesitant about uploading a large file, say for posters, because the larger the file, the higher the quality and the higher the quality, the larger the image can be increased before pixelating. Right now, I only have a 4mega pixel camera, so I can’t upload a file big enough for posters anyway, but it might be worth asking around to see how others feel about this.

There is an option in the settings menu of your profile to put a large watermark across your image so when a larger version of your picture (which might be large enough for someone to copy and actually make money off it), the watermark will appear in bold print redering it useless for copiers.

There is another reassurance about copywrite issues; as soon as you save an image to your computer, the date it was saved is also registered. If anyone else saves your image, it will have to be AFTER this date. This is one form of copywriting (proving the image is yours). So if you were unfortunate enough to discover someone had copied your image, you could prove the image was yours. There are lots of ways of doing similar things, another example is sending something to yourself by post or email I suppose – anything where the date can be registered. It really depends how safe you want to be.

The sad thing is, there will always be a risk that work might be copied. The only thing redbubble can do about this is to keep working on ways to improve security. It’s in their best interests to do this, otherwise people won’t feel confident about uploading their work. Going on my instincts, I do feel that redbubble is reputable site and I put my trust in them.

We don’t make all that much on each sale, but when I’ve sold privately, the hassel of printing, searching for frames, packaging and figuring out costs, etc. has been a bit of a challenge. I’m not the most organised person, so I’m happy to have all that done for me right now!

Hope this helps,

Jen :-)

David Librach, 4 months ago

“I would be a bit hesitant about uploading a large file, say for posters, because the larger the file, the higher the quality and the higher the quality, the larger the image can be increased before pixelating.”

Actually that is incorrect. The preview image has nothing to do with the size of the file uploaded by the artists. What you are seeing is a low resolution file of your work, not just a one shrunk in size.

So don’t worry, upload those large files so that you can sell posters. :)

Jennifer Woodward, 4 months ago

I assumed the preview image would be larger for a poster or large file, but thanks for clearing that up! Love your minimalistic boat image by the way!

Randy Monteith, 4 months ago

A local store owner took a look at my work and was excited to hang it in his store for sale

He wanted me to get it printed and framed and pay for it myself. Then he would hang it in his store and take 40% of the sale?

I told him to shove off. Alot of galleries want the same kind of cut.

So RB providing a FREE gallery and very good prices for prints is a great deal!

Elaine van Dyk, 4 months ago

RB is in this business to make money – that is perfectly reasonable. They take a fixed amount, and you can increase your percentage above that as much as you like. If you exhibit your work through a gallery, you will pay them a percentage too. With RB, you get your percentage and they cover the cost of everything else, plus make their fixed rate. I don’t see a problem with that, especially as it is free to be a member. If you don’t want to sell your work through RB, simply make it not for sale, and have a note for people to contact you directly if they wish to purchase your work – there artists on RB who already do this. Re other sites stealing our images, you will find that everywhere. Besides, as someone has already said, the image quality of displayed work is pretty low so whoever steals the work won’t be making much on it, if anything.

Irish in reply to Elaine van Dyk’s comment, 4 months ago

Whether you make it FOR SALE OR NOT, you can right click and copy…THATS THE POINT…we all know RB is in it as a business, that isnt something I needed to be pointed out!

Randy Monteith, 4 months ago

Mil – Point me to any site on the net and I will show how to copy any image that shows up on your screen. If it shows up on your screen it becomes part of your computers memory and can be copied. Disabling the the right click will only stop the novices.

Irish, 4 months ago

Ok, Randy, I THINK Im just so pissed because I had alot of pics of my Daughter up and thats makes VERY uncomf….maybe I was Naive but I felt because it was a photograghy forum, it would be secure….at the LEAST RB should post somewhere AND NOT IN FINE PRINT, that this is a possibility AND for people like me that arent SO AWARE, we wont put up personal pics of our kids…..THATS IT!!!! Ok so I learned a good lesson!

Elaine van Dyk, 4 months ago

Mil, my comment was not intended to offend….but it seems it did. Part of my response was in relation to your sentence which reads ”...I thought, the SALE Price was what WE THE ARTIST Received…not the few pennies that they send people….so with that being said….ALL PROCEEDS from any of my work will go to ST JUDE , if I only sent them 10% they would have NOTHING!”. In this respect you could raise your percentage. The rest of my response covered my understanding of the rest of your concern – that about other sites copying and using the images. I don’t think the quality of the images other sites steal from RB could produce any worthwhile products, hence most likely won’t fetch much, if any, revenue for them. This debate has been going around in circles since RB started up, and it would be really great if someone could come up with the miracle solution, so that peoples’ fears could be alleviated.

scarletmoon, 4 months ago

How do I copyright my work? (poems)

David Librach, 4 months ago

“OK I GIVE YOU ALL PERMISSION TO RICK CLICK ANY OF MY PICS AND SAVE N THEN SEE HOW LARGE YOU CAN MAKE IT …I DID IT and so did several others to test….so you guys should just be aware!!!!! And I STILL SAY it should be posted to newbies like myself so we dont purt up pics of our kids!“

Have you printed any of these images off? How large were you able to get them? Did you compare them to prints from the original file?

If so, I would pretty much guarantee that you would see a difference between the two and that they ‘right-clicked’ version would be of significantly poorer quality and would not be able to print anything more than a 4×6.

“at the LEAST RB should post somewhere AND NOT IN FINE PRINT, that this is a possibility AND for people like me that arent SO AWARE, we wont put up personal pics of our kids“

This comes down to general internet safety and is something that everyone should be aware of when browsing through any site. This is not unique to RedBubble. As mentioned above any image posted on any site is stored in your computer. While that may sound scary, there is little anyone can do with the images. What concerns me more is the amount of personal information that people disclose on sites like MySpace or Facebook, That however, is a whole ‘nother conversation and is not related to RB….. :)

petelangman, 4 months ago

yer i had this concern… but anything on the net is up for abuse.. at the end of the day enjoy the site for what it is…. A fantastic community of amazing artist from all walks of life with a common interest…. art, friendship and peace…... that to me is worth more than any sale. You should print your wok abd try a sell it in local shops it’s working for me..
keep with it and feel the love!!

Irish in reply to petelangman’s comment, 4 months ago

Thks Pete, I will, thks!

Irish, 4 months ago

David ….my pics were able to be printed larger than 12×14 and still looked pretty clear…....as far as MY SPACE and FACEBOOK….hate them, I think my daughter is one of the only kids in her school NOT on there…...anyway, I learned a big lesson…thats all!

Jazzyjane, 4 months ago

Hi Mil,
I have had no computer for weeks and I have missed all this.
I too was worried about photo stealing. not perhaps my ’’art’’ but my daughters photo that I have now removed. I had concerns after some comments made. They were not reportable, but they made me think.

I think you should be fairly safe if you choose your photos carefully and perhaps ’’disguise’’ your children more (now that you are getting the hang of PS) if you are worried about sick people wrongly stealing or using your photos (if that is what you are worried about).

As for not earning much from RB, I guess they have to get something for all the hard work they do. I guess you could buy your own work and resell it. The print quality is beautiful.

I guess we all have to take risks if we want to show our work and I guess you have to weigh them up. I am just offering an opinion, just commenting as I don’t have any answers.

PS is so addictive and fabulous. You are really getting into it.Keep up the good work.Keep up the good work. Good luck. I too learned a lesson and have decided to take a more informed risk and stay here on this great site,

Irish, 4 months ago

Thks so much for the feedback….I agree I intend to be very careful about what I post!

Scott Denny, 4 months ago

Ok….great conversation but really the bottom line is if you dont want your work used in an unauthorized form, do not put it on the internet.

Even if RB disables Right Click. No big deal. I can still Print Screen or use a custom Print Screen program to take an image of the internet. If there is a will, there is a way. It is like I told my dad about Credit Cards. If you do not want someone to take your information, never use a Credit Card.

I worked in retail theft investigations for 10 years. There are three reason people steal….Need, Greed, and Opportunity. The only thing anyone can do anything about it opportuinity. Yes RB could reduce opportunity by taking Right Click away. Two points I guess. One is it really is not going to stop anyone. They can use a print screen program like I mentioned and also refer back to cache files in their internet files. Two, there are a number of uses that Right Click brings to making RB a creative site. Eliminate Right Click and you reduce the ability to customize your homepage and such.

Many of the file sizes I upload are large enough for quality medium to large prints. Like mentioned several times here, the preview photos are really not much different than a large thumbnail image.

Truth is…every time we put something on the internet, everytime we use a credit card, everytime we write a personal check, you are giving up personal information and subjecting yourself to someone elses Need or Greed and giving them Opporutunity. It is the risk you take when you expose yourself.

I am confident that RB will continue to keep these thoughts at the top of the list. They are a business that cannot afford to dis-service its customer base. We just have to realize there is risk we take when we open doors and let our guard down.

Thanks to all for a great constructive conversation. I have seen these type of topics get personal and out of hand. You are a top notch group of people.

Kudos!!!

Irish, 4 months ago

Makes alot of sense Scott…thanks!

JeffStockton, 4 months ago

Mil,thanks for bringing this up as i had questioned & tested this myself& i found, like
yourself, i was shitty about the whole thought of it all.Thank god i didnt upload my very
best work as i reckon some work isn’t ment to be broadcast I.E. your kids (no insult intended).There will always be thieves trying to make a quid from others in one way or
another,hard to swallow i know.The botttom line is not to upload any work if you think it may be stolen & not that you would want it to be.Refer to Scott Deny’s comments is my advice to you,i dont know him but have read his wording on the matter,Jeffro

Shane Kaka, 3 months ago

Who knows maybe redbubble are the ones ripping us all off???????? There are dud sites too!