Incognita

Don’t go !!!!!!!!

Throwing yourself on your own sword is a pointless sacrifice and will be remembered for a minute.
Be more constructive like Betlenut.
Or use your imagination…...................
Be honest
The works weren’t THAT great.
They just stirred up some great debate.
Which I believe were their purpose.

Totally agree with Danny. Be smarter use that imagination

I had works deleted…. big deal i moved on without fanfare….. im as easy going as anybody and agree with Micks statements in someway…most of us dislike the American goverments stance in Iraq and other issues but defacing a flag is below the belt…...If we saw a middle eastern gent torching an Aussie flag in the heart of Melbourne would you say to everyone around…”leave him alone, he expressing his opinion”.... I dont think so….lets remember the unfortunate seens in Cronulla…..That was a real black day in Australias history…. lets just create without hate….wow im a poet a didnt know it… Let RB make the desicions it has to and move on…

Ditto

If they let me stay I will stay. I agree with Danny. Getting smarter is the go. I think my point has been made.

Good on you Mick
I believe what you started will kick arse eventually.

I understand you standing by your convictions Incognito, but I reckon Danny and The Fatman have it nailed.

Fuck it! I don’t have time to ‘be smarter’ - if you accept whatever then whatever is what you get. I’m only interested in being around intelligent people - rb is more and more dominated by morons (and the standard of images is plummeting). Amongst their number I include anyone who asks stupid questions such as “If we saw a middle eastern gent torching an Aussie flag in the heart of Melbourne would you say to everyone around…”leave him alone, he expressing his opinion”—as it happens I wouldn’t give a shit if the person was middle eastern (there’s a dead giveaway!), asian, caucasian or any other race. Or sex. Likely I’d hand them a match. A flag is just a scrap of material that symbolises things that I mostly disagree with. No country, no flag, no political system is exempt from criticism.

I personally wasn’t enamored with mick’s image - but I will defend to the death his right to make it. Just as I defend the right of the knuckle-draggers to object to it. What I won’t accept is bullying strongarm tactics and puerile claims of racism (strange how these tactics seem to go along with appalling spelling and inability to use English with any semblance of coherence). BTW racism is about power and it is not racist to object to a people who are in THE position of power - it’s self-preservation for the rest of us.

I am not going to support a for-profit company that is so ready to censor otherwise unexceptional political criticism. If they were censoring some of the appallingly bad stuff that is being posted - the overworked photoshopped to death landscapes, the pervy sexist softporn, the pets and flowers - I’d be a bit more conflicted. It’s not a case of ‘falling on my sword’—I will not support rb’s actions by bowing to their arbitrary rulings. Indeed, I will critique their tactics and the questions that they raise about the nature of online communities at every opportunity I get.

Bugger bugger bugger

Fuck it! I don’t have time to ‘be smarter’ > if you accept whatever then whatever is what you get. I’m only interested in being around intelligent people > rb is more and more dominated by morons (and the standard of images is plummeting). Amongst their number I include anyone who asks stupid questions such as “If we saw a middle eastern gent torching an Aussie flag in the heart of Melbourne would you say to everyone around…”leave him alone, he expressing his opinion”>as it happens I wouldn’t give a shit if the person was middle eastern (there’s a dead giveaway!), asian, caucasian or any other race. Or sex. Likely I’d hand them a match. A flag is just a scrap of material that symbolises things that I mostly disagree with. No country, no flag, no political system is exempt from criticism.

I personally wasn’t enamored with mick’s image > but I will defend to the death his right to make it. Just as I defend the right of the knuckle-draggers to object to it. What I won’t accept is bullying strongarm tactics and puerile claims of racism (strange how these tactics seem to go along with appalling spelling and inability to use English with any semblance of coherence). BTW racism is about power and it is not racist to object to a people who are in THE position of power > it’s self-preservation for the rest of us.

I am not going to support a for-profit company that is so ready to censor otherwise unexceptional political criticism. If they were censoring some of the appallingly bad stuff that is being posted> the overworked photoshopped to death landscapes, the pervy sexist softporn, the pets and flowers > I’d be a bit more conflicted. It’s not a case of ‘falling on my sword’>I will not support rb’s actions by bowing to their arbitrary rulings. Indeed, I will critique their tactics and the questions that they raise about the nature of online communities at every opportunity I get.

There are always two sides to everything. Whose is right?

I tend to get kind of selfish in these sorts of debates. Redbubble chooses to remove two sort of ho-hum artworks from artists I don’t really care about for reasons I disagree with but will accept…. and then an artist I DO care about withdraws artworks that DON’T contravene Redbubble’s rulings but DO go against that artist’s personal opinions. Not sure who to blame, but I know that Redbubble will be poorer for it if there’s no Incognita here…

That second-last sentence technically doesn’t make sense, but I hope you get the gist of it!

incognito, you stay we need you. For a 110 you are a spry thing…....wise beyond your years. Stay put. and keep on being you.

Incognita, in the few days that Mick8585’s work was posted, it lit a few fires, sparked some great debate, and flushed out the idiots. I now know who the bigots and racists really are thanks to that artwork. And yes, they are back at it again on Mick8585’s site. Yes, I agree that his work should not have been censored, but he did us all a great service by exposing the idiots and assholes on this stie. I hope that you will reconsider, and re-post your original work.

Whilst I very much appreciate the compliment of people preferring my Cog graphics, I find I simply cannot go with the flow. I have decided to post these images as a reminder of what is being done worldwide. Like Burke said “All it takes for evil to prosper is for good men (sic) to do nothing”.

I wish that I’d thought to do what betelnut has done but he already did. He’s so right > I got the redbubble personal email about their need for consistancy, but I certainly ain’t seeing no consistency there. redbubble has bowed to the yammering of … as you say Helen… bigots and racists. I’m not making them another cent.

I posted this on Mick8585’s journal: “Well, the proponents of censorship won. There is no hope for mankind if artists can not express themselves.” Then you asked me what I meant by that.

I meant that I am sorely disappointed. I am angry. I am hurt. I feel defeated. Granted, I don’t have a single controversial piece of work on my site. It isn’t because I don’t support controversial work, it’s just I’m no damned good at it. That’s why I so zealously support provocative work. I appreciate it. I love it. I can’t do it and I so wish I could.

I didn’t want the censors to win, but they did. And now I’m afraid that all the really good artists will jump ship, and then we’ll be left with my stupid kitties and flowers. We NEED to be provoked and stimulated.

I think Americans got the leader they deserved, judging by some of their comments on this site. But they need to realise that most every civilised place outside America (if they can conceive an ‘outside of America) holds their values in disdain. This looks as good a place as any to express that feeling, so I’m sticking around til i get banned, and plan to do some more politically-specific imaging.

ps., incog., I couldn’t agree more about ‘the overworked photoshopped to death landscapes, the pervy sexist softporn, the pets and flowers’ on bubble. If I see one more city snap shop crudely layered with some cloud pic they’ve nabbed offline I’m gonna scream. At least feather your edges, people.

Thanks for the explanation Helen > actually at the time I didn’t realise that they had made that decision about censoring Mick’s work > but I completely concur with your feelings.

I don’t usually make directly political things either… I’ve never thought that bashing peeople aroundthe head with your ideas would make them change theirs’. However in the wake of the successful bullying by the looney Right, there’s seems no other response. They need to be reminded why people criticise their country’s activities.

I know my stand is unlikely to influence anyone else, but I can’t stand by whilst they use the rhetoric of political inclusivity and sensitivity to shut down others people’s perfectly reasonable free expression.

On the stimulation end of things > I’d strongly urge you to join Flickr > lots of great work and great people (and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with flowers and kittens… more that here a particularly Hallmark card variety has become the universal standard). Theere’s far better debate there— even without admin nannying like here, most of it is very supportive but also far more sincere.

You’re right shayne—no better place to criticise than where the bullies hangout. That’s why I decided to replace my work with stuff that reminds them of the real values that their precious flag has come to stand for.

Don’t let the bastards wear you down. They are actually in a minority, they are just better organised at present. If we all walk away – they win.

I agree. To leave is to give them what they want. If nothing else, the bigots have been revealed. Dont forget they exist everywhere. Im asking you to stay, dont give them what they want.

Oh I’m not going to give them what they want mick—they are going to forced to confront the fact that their precious flag has been used to mop the brows of torturers and shelter a murderous self-interested and globally oppressive regime…

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm sounds like imperialism to me !

Incognita you are right. the truth is ugly. we have a run away goverment that never even won the election but took it instead with the help of the right wing supreme court. He has a 28 % favorability rating and look at the damage….............. it’s all over the place

I’ve come back to the bubble after my holiday to hear about this censorship issue..and it has burst my (red) bubble a bit. Disappointing.
If you find something offensive, don’t buy it, favourite it, or even look at it. Easy.
I’d rather look at potentially offensive political art than reams and reams of crappy-snaps of people’s fucking kids/pets/backyards! Guess the majority(?) get the say now though eh. Sad.
Can we see your art somewhere else Incognita?

If I were to say “wooo-hoo yaay go you!” would you give me a HD for my final year project next year? ahahaha just kidding… but on the serious side… i feel RB is starting to become more commercial than about art and community…. but hey what do I know… Maya has officially fried my brain…. and soon actionscript shall make me go crazy…

note: i didnt read past the third comment so my comment is probably out of place…