Helene Kippert

Oh, I’ve never been to that gallery. I must be miissing a lot :). Seriously, I understand what you mean. I suggested RB come up with a security and locked group requirement. Have the group need a password.

I’m not sure what people consider “soft porn”. However if there is a deliberate attempt by the artist to be vulgar, then I rather not view it. But it’s a fine line and we might be better off to just exclude it all together if we all can’t tell the difference.

I agree with you

I agree Helene and just voted. Do you know if hosts would be allowed to direct their members to the link for voting? Perhaps the more votes we could get, the more attention this valid concern will recieve.

Personally, I’m not all that into it and I question whether it can be called art. Having said that, others are obviously right up for it. Everyone has their own areas of interest and for those who don’t include soft porn, it seems like just that – porn. Sexuality is often marginalised in our societies, even in those obsessed with sexual imagery – in fact I would say that the more marginalised it is the more pornography there will be. But I think that there is a difference between tapping into sexual energy and getting your jollies – some of it seems repetitive and a poor excuse for taking photographs. Is there not a difference between erotica and pornography? Erotica, I feel, stimulates the body, mind and one’s energy and is more gourmet while pornography is a Big Cheesy Taste!! like take-away pizza – just scoff it down.

I have sent a group posting to the 8 groups I host. This was passed along as a concern for them to consider voting for a change in the current guidelines.

You know, I agree, Helen. There is no shortage of this kind of material on the internet and it’s not so much that I’m against it but that RB is not the place for it. I don’t send landscapes to Hustler! Porn has its place, I guess, but surely that place is not everywhere.

the problem can be solved just dont go to that group, I havnt seen it not interested in going to it but when we all start bringing to everyones attention then people will go and view it at of curiosity, if they dont get the views of people looking like everything else it will go away. But now you have brought it out into the open so whos to blame.

@ Marie Sharp, I think it was wrong that you sent something out to all your groups, you have just spread it like wildfire now…and everyone will go and check it out.

Good luck to all of you

I agree 100% Helene :-)

I just fear the result of censorship more than I fear having to look at some offensive images in the one day gallery. I understand what you are saying. I have been noticing the un-artistic borderline porn in the 1 day gallery lately too. But hopefully those images have the safe-filter on for those that don’t want to look at them. The line between artistic nude and soft-porn can be so gray. I am sure no two people can agree everytime on this. Although I would love to see those images gone as much as you, I am having a hard time voting for increased censorship.

I agree with you Helene

I’m new here and have stayed for several reasons, and the porn free environment is one of them. Is it art or porn? is quite subjective. Groups of any type, be it art or other interest should be able to “reserve the right to refuse service to anyone”, a concept I thought quite unfair when I was a child. Upon seeing a sign with those words at a local business establishment one day I asked my mother why they would want to REFUSE serving somebody. She answered me with a question. Do you and your friends allow bullies and nasty boys to play games with you in the school yard? When the teacher says we must all play a certain group game yes, but when a smaller group of friends join together, no. “Bad company is bad for company” making that evaluation should be allowed or that “rotten apple” will eventually spoil the basket. Voting on this issue is appropriate and fair. Good taste is not censorship. Your addressing a valid issue Helene, you have my personal thanks. RSB

Art, tastefully done is art ~ nude or not ~ but I do believe there is a place for such things as well…. How to make a decision as to what to include and what not to include ~ tough one because everyone sees with different eyes …. I would say this is a valid concern but exactly how to determine what is a what is not porn has a fine line…. Maybe the above suggestion of having it as a password protected section could be a possible answer…. its hard to say but at least it is being addressed – something I think should be….. Karen

Helene I totally agree with you and as much as I love tasteful nudes soft porn is a totally different expression and should not be encouraged on RB.

i havr to admit this question divdes me though i have no interest in creating such works i have enjoyed others who do porn of soft porn has no interest to me nor do i find it arrousing but i enjoy nude work especially in black and white photography and the more abstract nude work i allso have seen errotic art that i have enjoyed but for me the most erotic art is the sort that suggests rather than puts it on aplate like meat an two veg for instance i used to admire the work of i think his name is bob carlos clark and i have a book from way back of david bailys when he was married to maria helvin that is all nuide studys of her being a male of normal hetro sexual persuation i find the female form both artistcly and astheticaly very pleasing i have no interest in the male form but now you have raised this matter is it all female soft porn or are there male versions i personaly do not see a place for titulating soft porn on bubble not from a prudish piont of view just from an artistic but where do you draw the line and who makes the decision one mans nude is another mans porn i hate cencorship of any kind and yet without giudlines there is anarchy while im writting this i notice the comment above ie good taste is not cencership but whos good tatse and who is the arbtrator of good taste and somtimes bad taste is necicery to hightlight more effectivly the piont you are trying to make i do think its a valid piont to bring up and get poeple to think but unless you can take a general referendum of all on redbubble how can you make a valid desicion so as i said at the beginning it leaves me perplexed as to where i stand all i can say for sure is i cant stand cheap tacky seaside type postcard humer and easy double entadre im havnt seen the galleries you are talking about so maybe i should go and check them out i shall keep up with your efforts to see what happens

I agree and left my mark and used my last 2 votes. :)

This subject is very interesting, and I applaud you for continuing the discussion about it. I was just thinking, if it is truly about getting rid of images that are done in “poor taste”, and not seen as “censorship”.....than I would love to see them get rid of all these violence towards women images. These truly do offend me, much more than a few private parts here and there. I am seeing more and more of these images with women tied up and blood dripping from their eyes and mouths and men with butcher knives behind them. But then many on here enjoy the “dark art”. This is why I think this is such a gray area…...my idea of poor taste seems very different than many others.

We want to thank Marie for passing along this link….allowing us the opportunity to vote/leave our opinion on this subject. Everything has it’s place, and if RB sticks to it’s initial guidelines and enforces them, then porn soft or otherwise doesn’t belong in RB. One has to remember that RB isn’t just viewed by adults, and unless RB has software that the porn artists can use that would allow them to block their photos from every other members general overview page, then RB needs to do something.

I have noticed there are a lot of young kids getting involved in photograghy,
They are starting to post their photos on RB. This is a good thing,
If they get support from others it will encouage them to go further into the wonderful field of photograghy.
If this porn keeps coming up on RB, just how many parents are going to allow their kids to use RB.
I for one have forbidden my grandchildren to open the RB site, When not supervised by myself or 1 of their parents.
This is sad.
It is up to RB to either decide if they want another porn site or a family site.
Hopefully they will decide on a family site.

I agree with you Helene and you have my full support on this subject!

If my children can’t wander by the computer when I’m online then I feel it shouldn’t be viewed. Its good to have the safe filters on things, then it gives individuals the right to choose for themselves pending on their own circumstances.

I agree that it is not appropriate on RB.

I know! It’s a subject that needs a proper debate . I think Renate has hit the nail on the head. Soft porn is not appropriate on this site.

Hi Helene. We’re currently working through hundreds of objections and removing many, many works including a large number that were acceptable under the old guidelines. So I can assure you that this is not a matter of changing the guidelines a little just to make it look like something has been done. I’m not in the Melbourne office (I’m in the UK) but I’m aware that lengthy discussions have taken place over the last few days and the changes to the guidelines have been made after much consideration. Peter, Jo, Rhana, Hop and myself have all been watching the discussions, reading the journals and listening to the feedback and debate over the past few days. It’s pretty much taken over the whole week for all of us but it’s important to us that the comments are read and opinions are noted and taken into consideration. I’m not sure what more I could do to reassure you that you are being listened to, but I just wanted to post here to try to explain that this hasn’t been some quick fix.

You know I love nudes and fun pin-ups Helene but there is a soft porn element happening that offers nothing but shock and voyeur reactions…perhaps we need a Red Bubble Underbelly;)

I’ve pretty much said my bit in the main forum, Helene, but I just wish to comment here and categorically state that I believe objectionable images can be found on RedBubble.

We’ve been here a darn long time, seen the site evolve, and I suspect we know that some will be annoyed at our public stance on this issue.

However, I frankly don’t care for the trashy and skanky images that are being uploaded to this site by fools, and I’m sure as hell doing my utmost by reporting what I deem are pornographic images. I won’t say how many images I’ve objected to, but I’m sure it will keep the RB team busy for quite a while.

Keep up the good work – you have my 100% support on this important issue.

it seems that the admin on bubble take little notice of any seriose issues brought to there attention another redbubble artist had even less responce when she tried to bring the matter of copywright up and protection for members on site as she had found some of her work being sold on othere sites without her knowledge or consent having thought about it more i see no place for such work as you describe on a seriose art site i still have quames as to who makes the desicion for instance if you have a nude picture wher the model is in a provoctive pose i dont nececerily think that is soft porn nor do i think that seeing a women dressed in stoking an such as porn i think though that the playboy image is a good standerd to set by as to its deeminigng to women well thats another thorny and large subject i hate tacky mags with a girl with over sized breasts holding them up an out as if they where melons on sale as deeming in general not just to women but to me allso it offends me an i have never been a fan as iv said for me the sugestion is far more apealing as it leaves it to my imagination so iv decided to come out on your side of the aurgument so long as we can keep the jackboots of and the book burning out of the equation

Helene, Thanks for letting us know about the changes regarding the soft porn here on RB. We have nothing against nude photography when it is done in an artistic format (when it is and can be called ART) but some of the stuff that has appeared on RB over the past month…seemed to be crossing he line from ART to porn, we just feel that when it is posted over the internet on a public site that children can have access to, that’s wrong. I read through some of the comments and came across the one from Natalie Tyler….was glad to see that maybe the issue is going to be resolved for good….RB is a GREAT site for people to share their photos, artwork and creative talents….it needs to stay respectable. We are glad that Marie made us aware of this issue so that we could cast our 3 votes against it. Take Care ~ Rick & Deb ~ :)

Well, I must say this is all new to me! My stance is this: If I can not have my children, grandchildren or friends or clients look at my art here on RebBubble without encountering porn of any kind…..............then I will not be here! It is as simple as that for me! There are too many other places of that “——-”, already! Why would you want to ruin a very nice venue to allow that here? No clue! It is just not appropriate here! As for me and my home, art site, or whatever, I chose to serve the LORD! So…...............Let me know where this is going so I can move on from there! Thank you, Marie for alerting us to the situation. Also, thank you Helene, for having the courage to stand up and be counted!!! I salute you! All the very best, Barb : )

“I have wondered how my public stance on this will impact on the response to my art”

For what it’s worth, I disagreed with the proposal in the voting area, but your art is not politically motivated so it’s still in my watchlist. I hope others can appreciate that you’re entitled to your opinion without it necessarily affecting people’s perception of your politically/morally unbiased visual work.

Now, back to the piccies for me. :)

What do you mean by ‘1 day galleries’? Do you mean the Daily Wrap or the feed that’s in our RB overview?

I have not been on the site as much lately due to a friends illness but I am still trying to stay current until I get back home. Like someone else said, “I am on this site because it is pretty much porn free” or its the block I have on my own computer? I have noticed photos that I assume are soft porn on here already that are blocked out. I guess I always assumed there was some of that type of artwork on here. But I am thankful that I can block it by setting my computer. I will be honest with you. I am a Christian and I want to stay that way so that is up to me to do that but if I looked at nudity, of any kind I am afraid that I might start to enjoy it. Now, I am just being honest here. Not being ugly or funny. We all have weaknesses. But I would think that you could allow it for those who want it, since I feel like you can block it on your own computer just like you can change the channel on your TV. So, I guess now that I have born one of my weaknesses, I will say that I am neutral. have a good day all. trisha

I am sorry you have a problem with this. It is in our world,on our tvs, everywhere. I am against it as I said. I am a Christian. I am also not on this site to debate anything with anyone.No offence. I don’t mean to sound ugly. I was only adding my opinion. We live in a world where nothing seems to be in moderation. So thats why I said that I have it blocked on my computer so I don’t have to worry about it. And on my TV. ........later.trisha

Its okay Helene. I had to get off last night as I am doing in home care. But I did want to say; I would get into trouble if I said a lot that I feel like saying as far as the world. I personally think the people of the world should have had a problem with a lot of things a long time ago, starting with taking pryaer out of the schools. You see, you could open up a whole can of worms here when you talk to me about the world. I long for the world that we had back when Adam and Barney were on TV. I guess I am living in the past. But most of the time, I seem to be happier there. I do wish you luck and I do hope that you can get people to understand and give their opinion and vote. back to work..trisha

I dont have a problem with it providing its in the right area and people are aware they are about to view nudity etc It has a place.

I posted my two cents on the feedback page. I agree with you Helene. Just the other day an image of a naked woman with her behind prominently featured showed up in my feed, no filter on it, with some racy comments posted on that page. My 12 year old daughter looks at RB with me sometimes and I’m so glad she wasn’t in the room when that showed up.

i have not seen porn on here. i HAVE seen some risque art, but that is art? i don’t mind seeing it, but normally there is only me here.if you don’t like it, don’t look. after all, surely it is found only in erotic art and similar groups, then you know that is what you are going to see

don’t know what the one day gallery is? unless you mean the home page? can’t say that i have seen any, unless as i said i look for it. but if it’s coming on screen uninvited, i’m with you all the way. my grandchildren use this sometimes!

i was not aware of these pages, i concentrate on my overview page, and it dose’nt leave me time to explore. you are absolutely right to complain, and can add my name to your campaign!

Hello everyone, I would like to add my opinion….I have no problem with tastefully nudes but I have a son that is interested in becoming a member but a part of me would rather him not..the reason I would rather him not is because some images are less than tasteful…and more than what most would consider to be soft porn…some dont even have filters on them so this then becomes an issue for our young children to be exposed to these images way before thier time.

Hello all. I would like each and every one what has left a message regarding this issue to define the word “tasteful”. The reason I say this is because what is “tasteful” to me is not necessarily “tasteful” to you. For example, I find images and writing samples that have a Christian theme to be offensive. Yet, I dare say, most of you would say that those things are “tasteful”. One of the reasons I and many artists came to this site was because of the relative freedom from censorship that it provided. But that freedom has been perverted and chipped away at until it barely exists at all anymore. As an artist, I feel that anyone and everyone who has voted to increase the amount of censorship on this site owes everyone else an apology and should be absolutely ashamed of themselves. ....And here’s the solution: if you don’t like what you see in a particular group or on a particular page, DON’T LOOK AT IT!!!! If you’re worried about your kids seeing it, then I suggest you get some very serious parenting advice and tutoring. This is the 21st century, people. it is time to get over the latent Puritanism and Victorian- era snobbery and disdain for things overtly sexual. ...One last thing- there is no “porn” on RB, I promise. If you want to see what real porn looks like, there are about a million other sites you can visit that will demonstrate just how “tasteful” the nude/erotic/sensual art is here on RedBubble.

Apart from the images…comments and replies that are intended to titillate or arouse and which are sexually provocative…?

Apart from the images…writings (a powerful provocateur) comments and replies that are intended to titillate or arouse and which are sexually provocative…? is what I’d meant to write