Natalie Manuel

I agree entirely with you, Nat. The subject matters not one iota.

I’ve said before -
A naked chick in a crappy shot doesn’t make it a great shot – it just makes it a crappy shot with a naked chick in it :)

I totally agree with you ..

I, and my pupp, support you! Totally agree.

I’m hearin’ you. Lizzi & I agree

Thank you for finally saying this! Yes there is work on here that isn’t high quality, but it spans all genres and media. And you’re so right that the more common the subject, the harder it is to get a great photo that stands out and says something unique. Pet photos can be completely amazing and “high art” photos can be really very bad. I was on deviantArt for a while and what irked me was that if the photo had nudity, it was automatically considered brilliant. I recall one photo that earned heaps of praise and was even given a “daily deviation” (chosen as a feature), and it turned out to have been nicked from a porn website.

Honestly, much of the complaining is coming off as elitist snobbery, where whole genres of artwork are being dismissed out of hand simply because of content (i.e., a dog photo isn’t ‘artistic’ enough simply because it’s a dog). I hope that this tide of complaints ebbs, as it is getting more than a little tiresome.

Hi Nat.

Stay focussed on what you do best and let the other stuff go through to the keeper. You’ll feel better for it.

Cheers.

Darren – I feel fine :) But others need a bit of a wake up call in how they phrase their complaints and dismiss entire genres.

Couldn’t agree with you anymore Natalie. Anything can be a good or a bad photo, depending on the photographer’s framing and composition.

Excellent! I agree. Ditto Faizan “Anything can be a good or a bad photo, depending on the photographer’s framing and composition”

I completely agree and here is my 50 cents worth of pet photography. Hope you like it:

Napoleon

Sorry, just wanted to add too that the only photo I’ve sold so far has been of my pet cat…so I guess that also goes to show that photos of pets aren’t crap. I’m delighted that someone has a photo of my pet hanging on their wall!

Hear you and totally agree.

Well said Natalie!

Well put Natalie. It’s about time the technical aspect of a photo is judged not the content.

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it only takes one shot and it could be of ANYTHING
to make you famous.

Three cheers to your for this journal, Natalie – I totally agree with you!

You said it !!! “Art is in the eye of the beholder”

Agree totally – it comes back to that question – what is art?? – well that depends on who’s looking .

Thank you Natalie – i have felt quite depressed over the past couple of days with what i have been reading – thought i must belong to the crappy side as i do portraits of children, comment a lot on other peoples work (because i like to do so and no other reason) and a couple of images did well. I am here to learn – and i love it and i don’t want it to become elitist – if you don’t like my work – don’t comment – i don’t mind – art is so subjective – there may be a few rules but most beholders don’t give a hoot they just want it to speak to them. Feeling much happier to not feel alone – of to photograph another cutsie kid LOL!!!

thank you Natalie i agree whole heartedly i don’t know whether my stuff IS crap but i do take alot of animal pictures and without knowing really what redbubble would say about the quality of my work it makes a person nervous so it is nice to hear this and see support for this i hope that this gets ironed out soon because i am afraid it is going to make alot of people bitter on this site

Hurray, Natalie, couldn’t agree with you more. Just got back from an art fair where people were absolutely crazy about my cat photographs – who cares if it’s considered ‘high art’ – if you enjoy it and the public enjoys it, you’re on the right track.

So true, and I know exactly how you feel. I had a dog photo submitted to a contest and was told it was a ‘snapshot’ simply because it was a photo of a dog. I had the last laught though when it won!!!

Well said, couldn’t agree with you more! What is a crap photo to one person, another person loves, that’s the thing about Art/Photography, and it would be boring if we all liked the same thing!

Thanks for saying it!! The same people complaining about the “pet & family” photos are the same ones complaining about someone categorizing their work in some of the solutions regarding the content. Can’t be both ways people!!! This is all a frustrating subject, and I think it boils down to some people think their work is the best and the only reason it isn’t selling is because the site is bogged down with crappy work of others. My argument is that other people are not having problems selling their “crappy work”. Maybe the people complaining about all of the “pet & family crap” crowding their work should take a new look at how great their work really is!!

Thanks for a place to rant!!

Hip hip hooray for Natalie!!! Damn well said and I couldn’t agree more!!

Agreed completely. Well said. If we could all say what is or is not art there would be none of any kind. Plus many people do not consider photography art at all and where would that leave most of us?

I agree … taking a photo of an ordinary person and making them look exotic is where the skill lies. Let’s be honest here … if someone bought one of those throwaway cameras they sell at supermarkets and snapped a blurred picture of a passing celebrity, it would be hailed as a work of genius. Most of your photos tend to be of exotic creatures BUT they are beautifully arranged and the work you put into the photographing is worthy of the subjects. Ask these critical people for a list of what subjects we are allowed to photograph without being accused of snapshotting.

Well said Natalie. A good photograph is what the viewer sees and not us. What I have thought was a crappy image actually sold to someone who loved it. If we all had the same tastes in photography and art then what a boring place this world would be.

Yeah Natalie…...... I am one of those child shot people but I ignore what I read about those who can’t stand those shots. Some people just don’t care for those pictures of children, pets, flowers… while others do. We can’t make everyone happy. People have different tastes…thank god!

I have not been on here that much lately so I am behind in reading everything. I have to thank you because awhile back I read a discussion on this sort of topic. You mentioned me in it, it was very kind of you!

Your a BRILLIANT photographer….one of the best on here. I just had to add that.

Natalie, thank you for this wonderful thread…....I agree with everything you’ve said here and like the old cliche’ says: it is in the eye of the beholder”......... can’t say what I feel without just beating a dead horse soooooooo….just thank you for saying it all for me.

I agree completely! My favorite work seems to be of pets and children. The reality is they are not easy subjects to work with and I think you are right… if you can take an orginary subject and make it stand out that says something about who you are as a photographer.
I think you do an amazing job with your photography. I love your work. Keep it up!! :)

Well said, Natalie! I am not a profetional at all. But since I’ve joined RB, it is amazing to see how people respond to my work? It gives me confidence in my work and am learning so much. Just going through your amazing portfolio, makes me think about how to look at my subject and consider the light quality and everything else that goes with it. When I download my next work, I know whether I’ve done ok or not?

Here! Here! I agree

Thanks for posting this Natalie – we do listen quite attentively to feedback so it’s important that a range of voices are heard. It’s been our vision from day one that RedBubble is an inclusive site – and we don’t want to place ourselves in the position of judging ‘what is art’. Personally speaking what I find most encouraging about RedBubble are the stories about how we’ve helped people to re-discover their creative passion or like Sylvia to learn and gain confidence.

I love all the pictures of children and pets and flowers and beautiful places
on this planet. Like a good piece of music, they put me in a happy mood.
I overlook all the pictures of naked women’s asses and boobs and the violence,
and I keep my mouth shut about them. I don’t like them, but I believe everyone
has a right to exercise their artistic freedoms. It concerns me that negative
comments have been made about the children and pets and lined faces.
I fear that someone’s creativity may be squelched forever, and that is a
terrible thing. Some of this nudity is pure porn imho, and it has no place
next to a precious child or pet. I don’t understand why the nudies insist on
taking part in this site, and I’ll bet they’re the ones complaining about the
children and pets. Sharp jabs and stabs at someone’s creativity is criminal
especially if the struggling artist/photographer/writer is doing good, clean,
wholesome, beautiful, pleasing-to-the-eye work. If the animal/children/family/
flowers submissions leave, then so will I. I don’t want to be left with a bunch
of snotty griping elitists and nudies. I want to post some of my writings here,
but I sure am having second thoughts now after hearing these complaints.

Absolutely True!

AGREE!!!

thanks for saying it.

I ditto that thought…times ten!!!

Its the view of the beholder what is a great image, how they feel when they see the photo, and each person is different, so this isnt a bad photo anywhere, as there would be someone out there, who does like it.

Natalie rulez !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree that the quality should be the focus, but why have a go specifically at photos of exotic people? They actually get far less attention than photos of naked women or slow water, or dogs and cats for that matter. You should try taking photos of exotic things and get to feel the frustration of being ignored just because they aren’t familiar subjects.

agree quality should be the no one thing….

Natalie, I agree with you…the ‘pets and babies’ has been a bit of a buzz word around here and I’ve probably been guilty of it too, when I in no way mean I don’t want to see images of either those. I have pictures of a girl in my pf too and am also guilty of the pet one…in my favourites there are numerous dog images (i’m a bit of a sucker for a great dog picture)...we really should be careful with how we throw our words around

A good point you’ve bought up Natalie. And from all the replies you’ve had, you can see that you are not alone in this view. It’s annoyed me too, there are some absolutely amazing pet, wildlife & baby photographs on this site & yes there are snapshot as well! I also feel that comments being made about boring landscapes are unwarranted! As you say it’s not the content that ‘makes’ a picture, but how it is approached & taken & in some cases how it has been ‘processed’ or ‘manipulated’, or what ever people may prefer to call it. The ‘content’ of a photograph will make it interesting to some & ho-hum, rubbish or boring to others! Each to their own hey : )

I have stayed away from commenting in the forums on RB as I want to ENJOY my time here, I want to enjoy looking at pictures that appeal to me & to share with others my photographs that I take pleasure in, & that is were I want my focus to stay. I put people who have similar tastes in my watchlist & favorite their pictures & I like to thank people if they like a photograph of mine enough to stop by, have a look & leave a comment.

Regarding comments, I am also tired of ‘nice’ comments being bagged. If someone doesn’t like nice comments that’s fine don’t leave them, but please don’t make nasty remarks about others for making them. I leave ‘nice’ comments if I like something, my comments may not contain words of wisdom regarding the technical brilliance of a photograph, but that’s because I’m still learning & don’t feel qualified to do so. I am sure that as I learn more I will be able to add more technical reasons as to why I like a photograph, but in the mean time I do not appreciate my sincere comments being sarcastically sneered at.

I am not fussed about what makes it onto the front page, or ‘what’s hot’ & popular, I know it’s a hotpot of an issue, but for my part, I don’t want to be drawn into it & away from the reason I am here. If I see something on the ‘What’s Hot’ list that in my opinion I feel is unwarranted & probably got there due to comments, I just smile & move on to something that I do want to look at, as I don’t want to waste my time on RB being outraged or indignant about it being there or how it got there. I am more interested in spending my time viewing the photographs of those in my watchlist, as they are the types of photographs that I like to view, enjoy & to learn from. Personally, photographs of naked ladies & photographs with a dark theme are not what I prefer to view, but I do not dismiss them or object to them being here, I am GLAD that they are here!(Having said that, it would be nice to see a reduction in the quantity of snap shots!)

One of the things I truly value at Red Bubble is the diversity. Red Bubble has such a melting pot of ideas, with such an amazing variety of photography, painting & writing & I absolutely love that, as it makes me look at things from a different point of view, be open minded, objective & learn. So I recon it’s all good, each to their own, do your own thing & ENJOY!

Dor mate i couldnt agree with you more its so true dont let the stuk up snob types that whine and whinge get ya mad
i put up a shitta of a pic yesterday taken with a twenty buk throwaway camera and ive had more good comments on it than most others so yeah one humans treasure is another humans trash and vise versa

Verry well said. I coulden’t agree more.

I LOVE your response banditart – your are such a great character!!!

Thanks, Natalie. Well said and very much appreciated here.

Glad to hear everyones thoughts on this subject. Thanks Nat for starting it .

I have also been second guessing myself when I go to upload to my portfolio, as I read that someone was sick of “mundane flower macros”, and as this is one of the genres I love, it made me start to wonder about my photograhy as well.

I love other artists interpretation of all types of photography, and just because I don’t go out and do fashion location photography, for example, it doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate the talent of those who do.

Agree Nat … :)

@ Sue Wickham – personally I love flower macros!! I love looking really closely at them. So go for it!!

I can appreciate any genre done well. Stereotyping certain styles or image contents is ridiculous. Well said Nat! – PS, i love your animal shots (if i havent told you before..hehe)

Steve A, don’t take it personally, it’s an example along with the others examples I used like landscape, naked people etc. It’s a good example for what I was saying because often the composition etc is completely ignored as long as the “person” in the photo is interesting. I never said it wasn’t “difficult”, you’re missing the point there..

Oh btw, thanks everyone, I didn’t expect such a big response so I guess it was annoying lots of people!

Also just to clarify, I’m really not talking about anyone SPECIFICALLY, they are just examples. As Melinda can testify, I have no problem buying photos of “exotic” looking people! And I love the Quiet Earth series despite there being, you know..nakedness.

I’m with you Sue, I wondered about that myself as I’m rather fond of the flowers and macro and the other thing I here occasionally is – ” Oh no, not another sunset shot”! which I’m a big fan of , I can’t help it , I just want to take them .

Natalie, thank you for putting this up. I thought it was just me that feels out of place and that my pictures are not up to scratch. i am learning and trying to feel more confidence about the subject/object I am capturing. But since I read all the other comments about what is good and what is bad, I have been a little discouraged. I am glad this is out because there should not be a reason for anyone to be discouraged because they are put in a certain box.

I guess I’m feeling on the outer as well, Natalie. I like it when there is great variety – including animal and pet photos and photos of exotic faces and … everything else as well. Plus all the digital art and painting and drawing too. The perfect world without discrimination based on genre. Worth fighting for, but it won’t happen overnight.

I agree with all of the above. When I compliment a piece, it’s because I really like it. It’s not the subject matter that makes a picture, it’s the treatment of that subject matter. The most banal subject can become fresh with a new treatment. What really bothers me the most is the elitist judgements that people are using to feel superior over other artists. I’m guessing that in 20 years they will look back and feel like asses for being so rigid and judgemental. Let’s just not take it all too personally. I’ve said it before, all any of us can do is develop a thick skin and keep putting ourselves out there. Do what you do best.

I have to agree with all of the above.. I to was feeling like i was not good enough for this site! I took a lot of my shots off feeling like they were not up to standard,,Why , I now do not know. I put on a really bad shot and had a lot of people comment never enough to make the “A” list , then I put some of what I thought were better shots and all though they had 60 views only 3 comments do you see the pattern….? Children must play…............
so now I will not worry and maybe some body out there will enjoy my many sunsets and sunrises and some of the other crazy things i photo that make ME.. feel…....
SO EVERYONE JUST GO OUT THERE AND HAVE SOME FUN WITH YOUR CAMERA!!!
and share with the world…........... even the worst photo deserves a comment. their is beauty in everything

Nat, such a good and much needed topic. Hope the initiators and band-wagon followers of all those self-centred pseudo elitist attitudes are listening. Have to say when I read their negative comments about other genre, I wrote them off as sad losers: child-hating, dog-hating, flower-hating lesser people.

To be caustic enough to cause people to delete their work without reason is unforgiveable. I hope those who have done so will reinstate their images.

Yep. I really only care about how good the photo is, I don’t care what it is of. My whole journal was prompted by the idea that something is bad or good by default. I like most genres and I have seen wonderful examples of all of them on RB.

Has any one else noticed that since all this crap has been happening that you are getting fewer comments, but that people are adding you to their FAV’s with no comments on your work? or is it just me?

Hey Natalie yep – ditto Darren Stones.

Thanks to Paul Louis Villani’s link on his latest photo I found this JE. Thanks Nat, it needed to be said. You only have to see how happy it makes people when they have a sale to know that the bubble is doing wonderful things for so many! Viva la difference!!

Ditto to Mel, found this via Paul….VERY VERY TRUE Natalie!!

well said Natalie just because I don’t do pet shots kiddie shots doesn’t mean I don’t apprecite a pet/kiddie shot that has been taken well.

Bravo, bravo!
this is what I say about my floral image. people sometimes focus more on that the flower itself is nice and then consider my photos nice in that way, they do not pay attention to composition, lights etc.
Bravo!

Well said Nat, I totally agree and no doubt most of the redbubblers do also. I have said it before – this is not a place to criticise, whether that criticism be of the genre, the style, the technique or the subject matter. Keep criticisms to the other forums I reckon.

yep art is in the eye of the beholder