Natalie Manuel

Steven Lippis, about 1 year ago

Interesting read!

I think a big difference between music and photography is, I can’t pick up a guitar and it plays itself. Cameras have so many bells and whistles that help make a good image, all you have to do is point and shoot.
Admittedly i’ve played some keyboards which play for you, but no one would ever say I was creating that music!

Mind you, all that automation was on the film SLRs as well.

Still, someone who knows their craft will still stand out from the crowd. In the end, all the automation will give you average results, not great.

I was very anti digital for quite a while, but now I just see it as a different medium. There’s plenty I do now where digital is the better choice, yet I have images I could never have captured with a digital camera.
It’s like choosing a car. You pick one that performs the functions you need, but, personal taste comes into play too. Infact, given the choice, many people would have two cars, one functional and one for pleasure.

If you’re putting work online, you HAVE to photoshop it. My scans from my slides look nothing like the slide. Prints are edited in the lab anyhow before you see them, and manipulation occurs in a wet darkroom.
If you don’t photoshop out of the camera, you’re relying on the camera’s automatic settings, and why do that when you have a chance to give your own imput?

Weird thing is though, you find some people are defensive about manipulating. When it’s so very obvious, but they deny it like it’s an insult. Why? It takes a lot of skill to do well. It may not be strictly photography, but it’s still not something just anyone can do well.

Natalie Manuel, about 1 year ago

True (about the guitar)...but that all comes down to what is perceived as “easy” and the harder it is the more respect, rather than the “better” it is!

i agree – plenty of people are defensive when asked, BUT I think that does come from the fact that you do get “oh…;(” looks if you admit it.

Steven Lippis, about 1 year ago

Ah, that’s probably almost as frustrating as the old, “wow, that’s a great photo. You must have an expensive camera” comment.

mick8585, about 1 year ago

Hi Steve. It remains certain you cannot make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear. Photography has rules and terminal basics like painting , music and driving a car. All can be adhered to and produce a certain standard of finish. Talent is mostly inherent but can be learned as well. If not inherent, time and practice will allow it to happen. Me, I practice because its not inherent. Others need to work this out for themselves. Great topic.

Steve Axford, about 1 year ago

It just takes some time to get people used to it. Music has been moving to electronic ever since the first electric guitar was plugged in, and that’s 50 years ago now. We have a bit of catching up to do coz PS has really only been around for less than 10 years. We can’t expect people to suddenly understand what we are doing without a period of settling in. You just have to be patient and persist with what you believe in. Before you know it, the world will be swamped with manipulated rubbish and you’ll pine for the good old days when music was music, and photographs were photographs.

Melinda Kerr, about 1 year ago

Great article Natalie. I ‘grew up’ developing from film in dark rooms. We used to manipulate the processing so as to burn in certain areas and over and under expose others. I honestly see photoshop as being no different. It offers opportunity to those who are artistic and lateral enough to use it. My shots are unashamedly photoshopped (usually). It’s all about the end result to me and the impact it has on the viewer. By the way your shots in your blog are unreal.

ericb, about 1 year ago

There really are many aspects to this, as have been pointed out. Basically, Photoshop is our 21st century darkroom. It has all the features of the old darkroom and many more that have sprung from technology.

I am finally enjoying my first digital camera. I bought it about 7 or 8 weeks ago. I waited so long, for two reasons. First, I couldn’t stand the thought of buying a simple “point and shoot” camera just for the sake of having a digital camera. After spending my whole life with manual equipment (Nikon FM2), I wanted to at least have the option of maintaining as much control as possible over the image before releasing the shutter. I didn’t want to have to rely on software and computer equipment to do what I should be able to do with the camera. Besides, I didn’t have a great computer or the money to buy good software for image processing. The price was my second big reason for not buying a digital camera. Now I have a Canon Rebel xti and also shelled out for a decent computer and a copy of Photoshop. (the wallet is officially empty now)

I’m back in the learning curve with all this new stuff. But the freedom of not having to pay for film and processing is the greatest feeling ever. I have taken almost 600 shots since getting the new camera. I never would have used that much film in such a short period before. This liberates me to practice more and the overall quality of my work should improve greatly.

As for the software, I’m past my old purist thoughts of trying to avoid using it. My goal is to get the best image possible through the lens. Then, I can go to the computer and really have fun with it. No chemicals, no clock-watching, no cramped dark room. No more “oops! I left the paper out while exposing this print.” or accidental light leaks.

As for other art forms… Musicians adjust their sound many different tools also. A trumpet player may use a mute. A drummer may put a pillow in his drum. A guitarist adds effects devices. Any of them have the opportunity to process through microphones, mixing panels and effects processors. It’s part of the art. Writers have erasers, different media to write on, word processing software with various fonts, spell check, etc. All tools they may wish to use or ignore as they practice their craft.

What it boils down to is individuality. We all have different ideals, different personalities, different likes and dislikes. That is why there are so many fascinating pieces of art in the world and each one of us is taking part in the discovery of new things.

Sorry. I guess I was on a roll there. Now I better get some work done around here so I can go take more photos this afternoon.

Natalie Manuel, about 1 year ago

Steve – sure, but I do think Steven was right when he also pointed out that it’s because anyone can try photography now. Darkroom stuff has never been as accessible to the general public (like music creation as well) and so there is enough mystery there to keep the “respect”, regardless of how good or bad the art is.

Thanks Melinda. Totally agree – for me it’s just the end result and the photograph that matters.

shanghaiwu, about 1 year ago

love this debate/keep at it!

mwfoster, about 1 year ago

Natalie photoshop is an ok tool I use it mostly to take the grain out of old photos I scand in from 35mm shots or croping a section of an photo. I did croping all the time in the darkroom I feel its fair game. The other good use is to get true colors out when the lighting gets too much florsesnt into the shot. This I run across taking wedding photos. Photoshop does a better job of getting the yellow/ green out of the skin tones than my old bessler ever did. The photographer still has the control of the camera even in the digital age. A good photographer will get nine out of ten shots to be of high quality. A novice will get nine snap shots and one shot that is high quality. Then what you see and a nice shot might not do good when shared. I have two photos up that I took at night and one for a photo story that I was talked into posting and they have the most hits I myself thought they were marginal at best.

Cathy, about 1 year ago

I know what you mean, I do pretty much agree with the article, I think with the visual arts there is still a lot of boundaries that need crossing and breaking down. With music though I have heard so called ‘REAL’ musicians commenting on manufactured music with a kind of snobbery if you like… I can understand it in a way, it takes a lot of time and skill to learn an instrument. For example, I have heard Flee commenting on boy bands and how it would be nice if they could learn an instrument etc…

I’m a painter/artist I have complete faith in my technical skill but I still produce work that varies in it’s effectiveness, some pieces will always end up being more successful than others…. I also love to experiment so after digitally photographing a piece of ‘REAL’ artwork i’m not opposed to digital manipulation as well, just to achieve a different effect, purely to add richness rather than to detract and I think if they are your motives then go for it!!!!!

ElGordo, about 1 year ago

All the ‘bells and whistles’ on modern cameras do help the photographer get an image. But the camera will not compose the image for you, or adjust the lighting, or know that exact moment when the subject is perfectly positioned. It will not know when the DOF and focus provides the proper bokeh.
Photoshop, like any other software tool, is only as effective as the user’s skill at manipulation of it’s features. I see no conflict in comparing modern cameras and tools to those of traditional photographers. The best camera in the world in not a photographer, it in an imager.

DataShine, about 1 year ago

I generally agree with the all to frequent use of “digital enhancement” is often a work-around for a lack of talent … but as a musician of many years, I would humbly suggest that there is no less of it in the world of music.

Much of the, shall we say trendy, musical stuff out there is made from “digital samples”. These have been hacked together by people who are essentially too lazy to spend a life-time (or there-abouts) learning to play, or perhaps even master, a musical instrument.

I think digital is the best thing since sliced bread (though actually, I bake my own these days :) ... for one thing it allows me to work from home (that’s the digital stuff, not the bread).

But, no matter how funky the filters, or how pretty the fractals get, or how realistic the 3D models become … I think you can tell when you look at a portfolio whether or not there is any intrinsic talent lurking there. Sure, sometimes accidents produce amazing results (I’ve played with all the digital toys and tools too), but there are some things that just can’t be faked :)

Deborah Fuller, about 1 year ago

I have started playing an instrement but I didn’t have a teacher so I gave it up. The difference I see is that with an Instrement it usualy takes a good teacher, to become a great player and a lot tweek the music depending on what others or them selves like.

I like digital because I don’t have the money for all the film I go through to expirament for new looks or trying different lighting and you see the image right away. if it comes out crooked you can just deleat it. if you need more photos to take theres always more memery cards where as with diveloping you have to own a dark room to have good quality prints. art is the way you exspress your self (your feelings somone elses feelings) and there are meny ways to exsprees your self. But most people like to exsperament, and if you have digital you can experament more for less price. The photo shop can be a tool to help refine that little oops in a photo. I use digital film. and I don’t have photo shop, yet.

Lisa Roberts, about 1 year ago

I find that using PS on some (most) of my images is like putting the finishing touches to a painting. Sometimes I use it just a little for levels, brightness etc. and other times I like to spend ages completely changing an image. It’s all about creating and what you feel makes a good visual image.
As datashine says, some things just can’t and don’t need to be faked but other times there’s nothing wrong with a bit of fiddling to get that perfect picture!
Lisa x