Yep, brainless wankers. I’ll chip in for the boat ride to whichever country they choose to bugger off to. I am going to favourite this to get this image moving across RB to assist your quest.
Well ,, it got my attention,,, unfortunately there are individuals that express themselves destructively,,, even in tough times,,,,lets always remember that we live in a great country,,,, I was born in Portugal ,, but Australia is my home and I’m honoured to be a citizen,,,
Patriotism has nothing to do about a flag on a pole, but has everything to do with the ground it rises from
Folks use all sorts of ways to express anger, futility, distress and fear – some do it well, others are mindless and resort to copying images thrown at them in the media. Flag burning is seen as something more than what it is, because we allow it be something more.
Do as you wish to my Australian flag, I know she can take it
Whatever the reason, it may not be an action I agree with, but I’ll defend to the death anyone’s right to protest this way. Afterall, it’s our freedom to express that makes us truly free, not our flag. Great image BTW.
This is an excellent image! And I’m curious how you got it so big? I’ld have to agree about the wankers. I’m Canadian but I’ve heard some good things about Australia – seems to me there’s more to be thankful for than not. If somebody doesn’t like policy – there are better ways to voice it. Great image though!
I do believe in freedom of expression to an extent, but when you harm others with that expression it takes things on to another level… it’s like an alcoholic is only really classed as an alcoholic if their problem hurts themselves or anyone else… and if someone burns another country’s flag, they know they are hurting someone else (and to a certain extent hurting themselves)... at the end of the day, most people know what’s right and wrong, and when they do wrong, it will come back upon in ways they might not realise…
The top image is interesting because it to a degree depends on the context. I give two examples:
- the flag is burnt in protest over something
- the flag is burning becuase it was part of a building that suffered some sort of disaster
The latter, although not the case here, would be seen as a symbol of a nation’s suffering and hence the flag burning in a strange way serves a purpose.
As to burning the flag in protest – it’s the act of protest against a whole, as represented by the flag, that I find disturbing. The fact that the protesters don’t acknowledge that some people in the country who’s flag they burn may actually support their point of view.
As a final footnote – Austraila does not have freedom of expression (it’s easy to be confused with other big country)
Unfortunately, in this great country, the freedom of speach and expression has been allowed, by the politically correct amoung us, to extend to including acts that physically threaten others freedom of speach and expression. I have always maintained that you can believe what you want to believe, provided other are given the choice to hold true to their views without persecution. For too long now, there have been a number within our community that have chosen to force their beliefs on others, including retribution where their beliefs are not shared. This country is populated by many diverse races and religions, that in some cases, many years ago came to Australia to escape the tyrany of their home lands, to make a fresh start and be free. Maybe we should remind some of these brainless morons that abuse the freedom, because they can, that if they want, we can send them to many other places in the world where the sort of expression they seek will be met by a very different fate? I assure you that once the first has gone, the rest will take heed and the luxury that they are afforded will be properly used.
The key to this is that they were teenagers. Probably a misguided attempt to gain some notoriety and attention. Hopefully our society influences and adjusts their perspective so they would come to realise the pointlessness and inappropriate nature of the act.
I disagree that they are brainless wankers, they’ve obviously got personal motives for doing what they did, regardless of other people’s opinions of it… they obviously wanted to attract attention and get a debate started which has happened. While I am glad to live in Australia I wouldn’t call myself a patriot and I have no pride in the flag. I’d be interested to hear their motives for burning it though. I think it’s good to have discussions about things like this considering shameful elements of our history and the way Australian society has come to be. It’s the only way we can move forward.
I think the way the question was framed conditioned many of the responses, but Adrian Carmody’s first entry and Erin’s are the closest to the mark in my view.
Consider this, by publishing this image you help the perpetrators cause, unpublished and unseen, it is a random act with no power. There are some shocking things done by human beings on this planet simply to attract media attention to their cause, which does work sadly. My personal opinion, images using violence to attract attention are best left unpublished.
I don’t think I agree with you totally. Publishing this image in my journal, for the ones that watch what I do, is hardly ‘propaganda’. Neither am I using it commercially. And neither would I consider it particularly ‘shocking’.
But yes, it does open up debate. I could have posted a nice photo of a rose instead :)
My personal opinion, images using violence to attract attention are best left unpublished.
Although, in a way, I agree that disturbing images shouldn’t be bandied around and made light of, or used purely for selfish gain, it is by us seeing these things that we communicate. The above photo is not a great example, but if we take it further – the only reason we know what happens elsewhere is by the recordings we see.
Mark, I don’t know you, you have your own reasons for publishing what you choose to, maybe it upset you, or or you found it thought provoking, who knows, this is no slight on you. But if you choose to publish, asking ” you decide” then you are asking for opinions. You ask, You get. We all create reactions in some way from work we publish, you may not find it shocking, but others have the right to find it that way. As I saw this, then yes I obviously do follow your work, and enjoy it. And, lol, there is nothing wrong with a great rose image.
Oh, don’t get me wrong, Larry – I’m not offended or upset in the slightest! But, as you say, we all have our opinions, and mine aren’t in tune with yours on this subject :)
And you are also correct – I posted it for reaction, provocation, and interest in the replies.
i suppose i find flag burning offensive because it’s a huge insult to the people who died for that flag. you can disagree with a government of a country but a flag represents more than just a government. it represents the people who more often than not disagree with what their government of the day is doing. however, like others, i’ll defend the right to protest in whatever way someone chooses – as long is it doesn’t cause injury or put people in danger.
but the second photo… how i loved it. that curled behind the leg foot, the thongs. how aussie is that? :)
“if they don’t like our country, then they should pick one they do like and express their freedom by leaving this one.”
and this is the reason why i dislike australia day – for the fact it brings out narrow minded comments and actions by people who LIKE to think they are multi cultural but can barely acknowledge the original keepers of their own land
i am by no means saying NZ is any better but at least our national day (Waitangi day on 6 Feb if anyone cares) is recognised by most people as the day the crown screwed the native people by feeding them a corrupted version of a contract in Maori and then waved the English version around and forced them to adhere to it
me personally – i actually find it disrepectful to wear a flag as a cape
see this writing for and interesting take on Australia Day
if only they knew… there are more rules about how to carry a flag, what it can be carried with and it’s relation to size in reference to other flags then there is for flag burning. If they really wanted to make a better statement that lasts more then 10 mins. maybe they should have marched with the flag upside down, or dragging it on the ground! Burnings just a waste of money. I consider flag burning to be sign they want to fight Australians not protest an Australian issue.
to comment mark, i’d want to know the motivation behind the action…..and i agree it’s good to get debates going….sometimes teenagers behave in very strange ways – especially to adults,,,,,who knows why they did this? i don’t think the cloth burning is the issue though is it? what you’ve shown here is the symptom and naturally, the clue….but what is the cause?
and on a lighter note – yes your rose shots are lovely lol !!! x
...Mark I just viewed your photo-journal – great shots mate! ...and…realised that the above shot is taken on Australia Day – well this puts a completely different slant on things doesn’t it? It’s not just a random act…..obviously a strong statement – these individuals sent a messgae about desecrating the flag on Australia Day. Perhaps what the day stands for – what it commemorates – the history are inside that flame….I am neith condoning nor agreeing – just speculating here. there is a lot to think about when it comes to white australian history. I stop here. S
I certainly don’t condone the burning of a flag especially on an important day for your country, but I do uphold the right to freedom of expression and find both represented in the two shots and your amazing capture of them!
one of my daughters was in fed Sq wearing a flag to tell you the truth I was a little worried I wondered if someone might rip it of her and do something to the flag or her. she and a friend went in dressed in full length flags.
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Lisa Jewell
Wankers…............
Paul Louis Vil...
Tossers…
Simon Whittaker
Yep, brainless wankers. I’ll chip in for the boat ride to whichever country they choose to bugger off to. I am going to favourite this to get this image moving across RB to assist your quest.
Marion Cullen
Raises lots of questions in my mind – so judgement is withheld.
SeanOlio
Don’t need to apply my mind to it for very long – definitely a bunch of brainless wankers!!!
DeviousLili
Ugh. I’m not in any way an Aussie and this upsets even me. What is wrong with people?!
Maria Moro
Well ,, it got my attention,,, unfortunately there are individuals that express themselves destructively,,, even in tough times,,,,lets always remember that we live in a great country,,,, I was born in Portugal ,, but Australia is my home and I’m honoured to be a citizen,,,
Adrian Carmody
Patriotism has nothing to do about a flag on a pole, but has everything to do with the ground it rises from
Folks use all sorts of ways to express anger, futility, distress and fear – some do it well, others are mindless and resort to copying images thrown at them in the media. Flag burning is seen as something more than what it is, because we allow it be something more.
Do as you wish to my Australian flag, I know she can take it
Marion Cullen
Whatever the reason, it may not be an action I agree with, but I’ll defend to the death anyone’s right to protest this way. Afterall, it’s our freedom to express that makes us truly free, not our flag.
Great image BTW.
Jennifer Woodward
I’m not sure what’s provoked this but it’s a very sad sight indeed…
Mark German
replied
Nothing, really. A group of teenagers, that looked Caucasian, trying to make some kind of statement. Here’s a photo in contrast:
Jennifer Woodward
Well that one’s a whole different story, the person’s wearing it with pride…
Mark German
replied
Yep – hence the ‘contrast’ :)
Lorraine Creagh
Very sad.
I’m glad to see the image above Mark…shows another Freedom of Expression.
Jan Piller
This is an excellent image! And I’m curious how you got it so big? I’ld have to agree about the wankers. I’m Canadian but I’ve heard some good things about Australia – seems to me there’s more to be thankful for than not. If somebody doesn’t like policy – there are better ways to voice it. Great image though!
Adrian Carmody
some would say allowing the flag to touch the ground is disrespectful… and allowing it to touch your dirty thongs is even more so :P
Jennifer Woodward
I do believe in freedom of expression to an extent, but when you harm others with that expression it takes things on to another level… it’s like an alcoholic is only really classed as an alcoholic if their problem hurts themselves or anyone else… and if someone burns another country’s flag, they know they are hurting someone else (and to a certain extent hurting themselves)... at the end of the day, most people know what’s right and wrong, and when they do wrong, it will come back upon in ways they might not realise…
Jennifer Woodward
Oh, i get what you were doing with the “contrast image” just explaining that i understood, he he! :-)
Melinda Kerr
Agree…
Lisa Jewell
The national flag is significant for a percentage of the population.
That should be enough reason not to defame it.
But I guess people just do what they like without considering how it might affect others.
Jennifer Woodward
“But I guess people just do what they like without considering how it might affect others.”
Yeah, too many!!
PurePhotography
No comment but its one bad ass photo.
John Robb
The top image is interesting because it to a degree depends on the context. I give two examples:
- the flag is burnt in protest over something
- the flag is burning becuase it was part of a building that suffered some sort of disaster
The latter, although not the case here, would be seen as a symbol of a nation’s suffering and hence the flag burning in a strange way serves a purpose.
As to burning the flag in protest – it’s the act of protest against a whole, as represented by the flag, that I find disturbing. The fact that the protesters don’t acknowledge that some people in the country who’s flag they burn may actually support their point of view.
As a final footnote – Austraila does not have freedom of expression (it’s easy to be confused with other big country)
Mark Jones
Unfortunately, in this great country, the freedom of speach and expression has been allowed, by the politically correct amoung us, to extend to including acts that physically threaten others freedom of speach and expression. I have always maintained that you can believe what you want to believe, provided other are given the choice to hold true to their views without persecution. For too long now, there have been a number within our community that have chosen to force their beliefs on others, including retribution where their beliefs are not shared. This country is populated by many diverse races and religions, that in some cases, many years ago came to Australia to escape the tyrany of their home lands, to make a fresh start and be free. Maybe we should remind some of these brainless morons that abuse the freedom, because they can, that if they want, we can send them to many other places in the world where the sort of expression they seek will be met by a very different fate? I assure you that once the first has gone, the rest will take heed and the luxury that they are afforded will be properly used.
Courtney Goddard
brainless wankers. should be sent off to see how the other half lives and how lucky we are. cliche but true.
reflexio
The key to this is that they were teenagers. Probably a misguided attempt to gain some notoriety and attention. Hopefully our society influences and adjusts their perspective so they would come to realise the pointlessness and inappropriate nature of the act.
Anthony Begovic
Brainless wankers. Totally.
Rob Brooks
if they don’t like our country, then they should pick one they do like and express their freedom by leaving this one.
Great shot too!!
Nancy Polanski
Ignorant people do foolish things. And usually have self-centered opinions. I think this was a foolish, ignorant, self-centered act.
Erin Lyall
I disagree that they are brainless wankers, they’ve obviously got personal motives for doing what they did, regardless of other people’s opinions of it… they obviously wanted to attract attention and get a debate started which has happened. While I am glad to live in Australia I wouldn’t call myself a patriot and I have no pride in the flag. I’d be interested to hear their motives for burning it though. I think it’s good to have discussions about things like this considering shameful elements of our history and the way Australian society has come to be. It’s the only way we can move forward.
By the way, hi Mark, long time no see. =)
Mark German
replied
Hey Erin :)
Yes, long time – we should catch up sometime :)
Bruce Watson
I think the way the question was framed conditioned many of the responses, but Adrian Carmody’s first entry and Erin’s are the closest to the mark in my view.
Larry Varley
Consider this, by publishing this image you help the perpetrators cause, unpublished and unseen, it is a random act with no power. There are some shocking things done by human beings on this planet simply to attract media attention to their cause, which does work sadly. My personal opinion, images using violence to attract attention are best left unpublished.
Mark German
replied
I don’t think I agree with you totally.
Publishing this image in my journal, for the ones that watch what I do, is hardly ‘propaganda’. Neither am I using it commercially. And neither would I consider it particularly ‘shocking’.
But yes, it does open up debate. I could have posted a nice photo of a rose instead :)
My personal opinion, images using violence to attract attention are best left unpublished.
Although, in a way, I agree that disturbing images shouldn’t be bandied around and made light of, or used purely for selfish gain, it is by us seeing these things that we communicate. The above photo is not a great example, but if we take it further – the only reason we know what happens elsewhere is by the recordings we see.
Larry Varley
Mark, I don’t know you, you have your own reasons for publishing what you choose to, maybe it upset you, or or you found it thought provoking, who knows, this is no slight on you. But if you choose to publish, asking ” you decide” then you are asking for opinions. You ask, You get. We all create reactions in some way from work we publish, you may not find it shocking, but others have the right to find it that way. As I saw this, then yes I obviously do follow your work, and enjoy it. And, lol, there is nothing wrong with a great rose image.
Mark German
replied
Oh, don’t get me wrong, Larry – I’m not offended or upset in the slightest! But, as you say, we all have our opinions, and mine aren’t in tune with yours on this subject :)
And you are also correct – I posted it for reaction, provocation, and interest in the replies.
Lauren O'Keefe
i suppose i find flag burning offensive because it’s a huge insult to the people who died for that flag. you can disagree with a government of a country but a flag represents more than just a government. it represents the people who more often than not disagree with what their government of the day is doing. however, like others, i’ll defend the right to protest in whatever way someone chooses – as long is it doesn’t cause injury or put people in danger.
but the second photo… how i loved it. that curled behind the leg foot, the thongs. how aussie is that? :)
Angela McConnell
“if they don’t like our country, then they should pick one they do like and express their freedom by leaving this one.”
and this is the reason why i dislike australia day – for the fact it brings out narrow minded comments and actions by people who LIKE to think they are multi cultural but can barely acknowledge the original keepers of their own land
i am by no means saying NZ is any better but at least our national day (Waitangi day on 6 Feb if anyone cares) is recognised by most people as the day the crown screwed the native people by feeding them a corrupted version of a contract in Maori and then waved the English version around and forced them to adhere to it
me personally – i actually find it disrepectful to wear a flag as a cape
see this writing for and interesting take on Australia Day
and here ends my second rant for the day…
Ersu Yuceturk
if only they knew… there are more rules about how to carry a flag, what it can be carried with and it’s relation to size in reference to other flags then there is for flag burning. If they really wanted to make a better statement that lasts more then 10 mins. maybe they should have marched with the flag upside down, or dragging it on the ground! Burnings just a waste of money. I consider flag burning to be sign they want to fight Australians not protest an Australian issue.
Anne Staub
It did get your attention and for you to react ….. I agree with Larry, why pay attention if you disagree with their way of expressing themselves.
berndt2
wankers
Erin Lyall
Definitely, I’ve been a bit M.I.A. lately but there are reasons for that, we should catch up soon for sure though. I’d love to.
Suzanne German
to comment mark, i’d want to know the motivation behind the action…..and i agree it’s good to get debates going….sometimes teenagers behave in very strange ways – especially to adults,,,,,who knows why they did this? i don’t think the cloth burning is the issue though is it?
what you’ve shown here is the symptom and naturally, the clue….but what is the cause?
and on a lighter note – yes your rose shots are lovely lol !!! x
Suzanne German
...Mark I just viewed your photo-journal – great shots mate!
...and…realised that the above shot is taken on Australia Day – well this puts a completely different slant on things doesn’t it?
It’s not just a random act…..obviously a strong statement – these individuals sent a messgae about desecrating the flag on Australia Day.
Perhaps what the day stands for – what it commemorates – the history are inside that flame….I am neith condoning nor agreeing – just speculating here.
there is a lot to think about when it comes to white australian history. I stop here.
S
Joanne Bradley
I certainly don’t condone the burning of a flag especially on an important day for your country, but I do uphold the right to freedom of expression and find both represented in the two shots and your amazing capture of them!
Christine Wilson
one of my daughters was in fed Sq wearing a flag to tell you the truth I was a little worried I wondered if someone might rip it of her and do something to the flag or her. she and a friend went in dressed in full length flags.