David Roman

I see some of what you are talking about. But I stay to myself for the most part so maybe I don`t see as much as you. I sense alot of game playing and I don`t play games.

Totally agree David! Thanks for bringing this out in the open!!! :)

I belonged to a site where people were writing about their child’s first mouth of solid food etc. and I am thinking that there probably is a site for that type of conversation and a site for just about anything. This s an Art Web site and I think most people here on rb see that however I have seen some of what you are talking about and I hope they become aware. This becomes a touchy subject and some people will say “just drop them from your watchlist”. Good luck with this one David, you know I will support you because I think you’re swell!!!

I’ve just removed several images in my portfolio, good to go through and review work regularly. There is nothing wrong with also reviewing your own watchlist and favorites. This is also on my to do list :)

I wasn’t aware of any malicious behavour…..it makes me very sad to think that there has been.
I looked at a lot of other sites before I joined Red Bubble. I chose to use Red Bubble because it was a community of artists supporting each other. Getting feedback on my work has given me the confidence to go further with my work and actually exhibit it. I don’t think without the support I have had from other artists here that I would have had the confidence to do this.

I agree however go easy we all have to start somewhere

Amen David!! You said it all and so well! : ) (hope I’m not one of the offenders) ; P You can always feel free to just say – “Hey, T, this is CRAP!!!! Get rid of it!” I trust your opinion.

Like I said I do Agree

Well I must say… I just opened up to a person who put up 10 pieces.. this disterbs me.. but I never talk about it.. perhaps David what is best to you is not so to someone else so I try to see a person who is trying to do …when I see all the work .. their best ok.. I am no judge in their world.. I can not stand it when people upload tons of work!! I never upload ..on special occasion i have and apologize profusely for it… more than 3 works per day… and not all at once.. There was a really good photographer on here.. still may be .. real good.. but 15 to 20 shots!!! omg.. so I cannot say what is good to some is good to me.. I do not comment or if I don’t consistently feel anything towards the work I take them off my watchlist.. but I would deeply appreciate a limit on uploads.. I cannot even enjoy the work of all the wonderful Co Creators here if my watchlist is full of one persons work!! It drives me bonkers!!! anyway.. I do not know it this was discussed..but it felt good to say it.. I have held it in for about a year!! tee hee.. David.. thanks

In order to ease my withdrawel symptoms (HA HA HA) I thought I’d come on to RB for a while and tidy my profile, maybe get rid of some stuff. So I thought it a coincidence to see this post. I agree, and with respect to myself as well I might add. We should weed our stuff every so often. The social side of RB is enjoyable too. But it is primarily an art site. It is a joy to see the work of so many great artists, and to hope that mine is acceptable. To sell, of course is great, too. As for infighting and games, I tend to ignore it, but it is bad for the site and the reputation of RB. I have lovely people on my watchlist, so we don’t have any of that.
Bravo, David, for having the courage to say what needs to be said. Makes me brave enough to ask, How many cats is a person expected to look at? Back to weeding for me

I’m a bit perturbed about this did’nt realize there was any in house fighting :<((
I post images I like and I go through my stuff regular and delete lots that I’m not happy with any-more.Probably why I don’t seem to have many views for the length of time I’ve been on RB.I am guilty of doing a series of Red belly Black Snakes,but I liked all of them:<))

Hey Mr D!!!! I could not agree with you more and its about damn time someone stood up and said so!
Art – I know that some of my stuff is not perfect and I like Ajax am constantly deleted works. (Which I need to do again) I have also found that stuff that I think is amazing no one really likes. Such is life! But we all should only be posting the work that we most proud of and we all should be commenting like photographers as well! Just my two sense!
Bickering – I have had my fair share of drama placed in my lap and I sometimes want to say this isn’t High School people. How can we say we are an a family and then cause drama for someone else!!!! I don’t get it!!!

Kudos to you my friend for posting this! I agree 100%

Your point is valid … And my time is on here is short so I appreciate your point. I have to agree with you and if I ever become one of “those”, please gently call me on it privately. I confess I was one of those awhile back but I have learned. Hopefully I will continue to learn and only post quality work. Every now and then one may slip through and I have removed it myself! So keep me honest and keep me challenged … it is the best of all worlds! Thank you David for the courage and honesty and sincerity you showed here.
—Judi

WOW THIS IS GOOOOD!!!!! Yes that was sincere.

Hmm.. well, a lady I admire the art of quite considerably, just posted pictures of her children and grandchildren. They were not fabulous paintings, but they were interesting to look at, and I must say she did an incredible job in their creation.

She was citing them as reason, and inspiration, for her work. She wasn’t displaying them as her work. And, I felt perfectly free to either ignore the notice that she had uploaded them, or go and see them. I went to see them.

So, basically, what I’m saying is this: reason for the uploads, how they are done, how often, etc. comes into play. I do agree with you, in most cases, but, some people are uploading to the stock groups, some people are showing off their talents as costume makers, some are sharing their inspiration, and some are showing off photographs they took which they find to be well balanced and artwork all on their own.

Perhaps the emphasis should be more on people deciding what belongs under ‘artwork’ and what should be uploaded and hidden, or to some place like Image Shack, and shared in a journal, instead.

For the record, the pictures of my family which I uploaded are art, or they are for the stock group. Whether you think they are good art, or my best art, is only your interpretation. Maybe that’s the best I can do with photography! However, i did get compliments on some of them from photographers I admire, so …

I know what you mean,I have removed people from list because when you get on after a couple of days there is a massive overload.Some-times a whole page of one person.You don’t have the hours to comment,you use all your time and don’t get to put your stuff up.I comment on my favs then later I’ll go through my watchlist and see what they’re up to.A few on my list go away for work etc,so they have lots of images but that’s cool, as their work is worth the wait….David don’t comment on my work if you have’nt the time I will not be offended.This site is mainly about selling your work ,not that I’ve sold much (that’s also ok I’m not interested in money).....Knickers to the high school club,that was my motto in school as well…....Good on you for saying what you feel…(hey that’s dumb…you do it all the time with your work)

I agree in principle with some of the points raised here…I try to restrict my uploads to one per day unless I won’t be around the next day, and then there will be two…but I post only what I consider to be my best work…
I try to comment as much as I can on the work of all the people on my watch list, and to thank all those who comment on my own work, but it can sometimes be diffficult and time consuming, if one person has posted five or more on the same day….so my comments have to be very brief, when in fact I would like to be a little more fulsome in praise of something I find is really good.
There have been many discussions about this very same topic over the last few months, with no real solution…we’re dealing with hosts of different people who have very different and very valid opinions about what RB means to them…. so for what its worth, the only suggestion I can make is that in order to lower frustration levels, either to limit the numbers on watchlists, or to comment only on specifically chosen images….

I love it here at RB (Redbubble) and I agree to somewhat David, however everyone has to start somewhere and some folks may be proud of there work that others may find that isn’t very pleasing to the eye, BE NICE DEAR! We all have had to start somewhere, I can remember when I first started my work wasn’t up to par as some of the others, but in due time I think I have become alot better, (I think) however some others may not seem to think so, it’s all to each his own…

Hi David!
I do agree with you , I for one have been guilty of this from time to time, I have went through my gallery and deleted several of my images, I have found that over time some of the things that I considered to be my best work, I look at now and dont like as much. But I think all the feedback on the not so good images has inspired me and helped me grow as an artist, I think that it is part of this endless journey!

I have to disagree, David. With all due respect and I say this with a smile, the artist might believe that every one of the uploaded photos is very special and each one is a work of art. There could be several other reasons for a large upload.

One would be that the person just opened their site but that doesn’t sound like the case.

Another reason could be that a large number of uploads are showing up on your “bubble” page because the artist uploaded and then changed his/her mind. Have you visited the artist’s site and are all of these photos present? Perfect example of this is your journal entry right here. It shows up on my bubble page twice. You probably started this journal and then took it down instead of reworking the original entry or you accidentally posted this twice and took one down.

And finally it’s possible the artist is waiting for feedback from the site, from family and relatives, to let him/her know which ones he/she should keep up. If you can’t decide, let friends, family and the public decide. That seems to go on quite a bit. Is it wrong? I don’t think so.

We’re all up here, like you said, to showcase our best and maybe we can’t decide immediately or maybe, like I said before, the images went up and some were taken down.

Whatever the case I’m uncomfortable with anyone deciding what is art and what is not art, what’s your best and what’s your worst. That’s for the artist to decide and that’s why there is art up here that we love and we hate…..as it should be. :)

Hi David

What a msg, I do agree with some of what you are saying and at times I do get frustrated with some Images as you say when you load 5,6 7, 8, 9, pictures looking the same.
I still do not understand why people would want to load up lots of family shot as we hope to sell here! So I would think that some of the other sites would be better for this type of work. (Fliker)
We need to re focus on what the site is about and them maybe we will get a lot more credit for our work.
I do not even think that I am good at what I do but I take time and think about the ones I put up. I did take some down, as I did not think they would work. I have 100s of shots.
We need to strike a balance on what we put up and also encourage new people so we do need a bit of flexibility so they get to show and then give advice on how to improve.
There is room for all and I think the host of the Groups could manage and maybe help with the standard of work. They work hard and do get lots of work that does not fit the guidelines.
We all need to work on this together
Keep up the great work

Nala ☺

I’ve started going through my images and deleting some that I’m not quite happy about, or that have received very little or no feedback.
I would also be happy to receive more criticism and advice about how I could improve my images, not just pets on my back, although I love those too :)
But I understand that everyone here doesnt necessarily have the same “level” and all works may not be artistic or creative or good enough. I have a hard time deciding what that is when it comes to my own images…
But thanks for taking this up, it’s very important, so I agree with your main points.
Cheers.
Cornelia

^ pet=pat :)

Hey Where is David? You started this clam bake. Come out come out wherever, you are. What are you thinking or maybe you’re busy right now. Later maybe
Ann M.

Oh…. don’t stop watching me… I’d miss that. 
I agree with you David. The higher the standard of artwork on RB the more return visitors to site we’ll get. We are making the site.. and it’s the quality of products we’re offering to potential buyers that makes someone stay a little longer and browse or go to another site right away.
On the other hand, as some others already pointed out, everyone is here for a different reason. Some want some feedback (go to Flicker), some want to show their family the wedding photos (go to Yahoo photos or Photobox) and some others just want to get that bit of encouragement and feedback. So I tend to let them all have theirs and just not comment.
Though the people I’m watching are serious about their product but you do find the odd image here and their… and I know how easy it is to think “oh, I’ll put that on RB and see what others think about it”. It’s always a gamble… you might think it’s the best you’ve done so far but others might not see it that way. Plus everyone’s got a different taste. I’m personally not a big fan of cats or cars, but again, that all depends on the quality of the image.
I tend to stick to a few rules and that seems to work for me:
1. Never upload an image you just shot. wait a day, revisit it and if you think it’s really good upload it. Of course this is subjective but you will gain some distance and the feeling you’ve had when taking it and the first excitement about your “success” will have faded a little.
2. Look at the image and imagine it as a big print on a wall in an exclusive gallery… You’re about to open the doors to this evenings visitors. Now look at your image again (big on the wall) and decide whether you would be happy to stand next to it and say proudly “This is mine.” or whether you’d go and hide.
The moral of the story is, as said before be others, only upload your very very best.
This was supposed a brief comment, now look what’s happened.

David, you said it all! I also agree with what you say – didn’t know about the in-house dissent, which is sad to hear. I am a ‘beginner’ and try to only upload what I am proud of, but DO get carried away sometimes!!! Then I go and delete a whole lot!! Thank God for the new Bulk edit feature!

In fact, as I am getting better at my work, I find myself removing more and more work from my portfolio, as I was about to do this morning! i will be ruthless, I promise!!! LOL!

David, I hope you will continue to comment on my work when you feel like it and say it like it is! Very few people actually tell you what is good about the photo/painting/writing… I would like to hear more about the composition, lighting, dof, contrast etc. To me, that is critique and is helpful to a newbie like me and helps me learn what o do and not to do!

Thank you for bringing this out in the open – it needed to be said, and I am probably also one of those guilty of uploading too much at times! I will attend to that right now!! :o)

I see the ‘Bulk Edit’ feature does NOT allow you to delete work… perhaps it might be useful to add ‘delete’ to the ‘edit’ and ‘show public view’ under each of the uploaded images. this would allow us to remove our work simply and quickly instead of having to open each image and then deleting.

Just a thought. :)

I just went through my gallery and removed 3 pages! And gee it felt good! I was almost cringing when I looked at some of the stuff I had up… slinks away!

Now to the watchlist and faves…

Thank you David, for opening my eyes to be more aware and conscious of what I upload and share on RB!! :)

I hope you had a delicious dinner!!!!! This is a very important hot topic.

Well i hope we can all learn and i think maybe some will and have .. i still think twice about what i put up

Take care and hope it continues to roll

I know what you are saying David, but some folks are proud of what they do; hell we can’t please them all; not even you are I my friend… Cool off dear!

Exactly what I have been thinking. I love RB for the fact it is a community of artists and those who enjoy it as well. There have been a few times that I have come across what seems to be more of social swap meet. I am truly inspire by the creativity that has crossed my path since joing RB – the feedback has helped tremendously with what I put in exhibits here locally. We all should put our best out there and encourage those who want to grow as an artist.

I hear you and thanks for the reply. :)

Probably better than/then mine. LMAO!

Well David I guess the way I feel about it is there are many many groups here on this site, all kinds of works have a place here. There are some sites that I would not even visit because of my dislikes hun, but like I said before to each his own. I try my best and that’s all I can do however some folks may not agree that my works belong here either, but we all have some sort of talent and we try… I’m sorry I’m not being a bitch, it’s just that everyone deserves to be here and show their work because they may think it’s the greatest thing they ever did…

I am not aware of the “in house bickering” happening on RB. It is sad to hear of that. As for multiple uploads, I have been guilty, althought not of posting similar images. I take on board what you have said, and will address that. I have posted photos of family, but for no other reason than I believed them to be good images. I have just removed them. I am relatively new to both photography and RB. This site has opened a whole new world to me. It is a place I appreciate, as it allows me to express myself through my photography – allows the opportunity to “speak with images” when words are sometimes difficult to find. David, I am a great admirer of yours. You are “straight down the line” – tell it how you see it. I hear and appreciate what you are saying and the validity of your comments. Please just be aware there may be people in the RB community who might take this on board as a personal finger pointing to them. People don’t need to be discouraged, so a gently gently approach please.

No hun I didn’t say that at all, and send Fred away…LOL
I know what you are saying hun, it’s just that everyone has a place here in alot of different groups…

Another point to consider is when uploading a new image, set it as ‘Hide this work from others ’ for a while to see what it’s like when uploaded. You can always reset it to view by all later. :)

The other thing is that some people upload their family photos in order to actually buy the images from RB themselves. It may not be art as such, but to family, it is precious when t comes from another family member. :)

...LOL, I sent him away and he’s coming for you because you’re being mean…

This is so true David and bravo for speaking out…. I love it hear and of course I do like the feedback since it has really helped me improve as well as build my confidence as an Artist…. However I also was feeling like I should be posting something everyday and it is so ironic that I actually was feeling so frustrated yesterday and this morning with the fact that I thought I should be posting something new and when I looked at some of my creations the last few days and some of my older works it just did not seem good enough and I thought to myself do I really want to post that… I also have created enough bagel trees so I did not want to do that again(lol) but no new images came to my head and I feel like I have hit a creative downslide….. This really makes me stop and think before I post another piece just for the sake of posting…. I too may need to look at my site and remove some of my images… This is an art community with so many creative souls and usually with that these souls are a bit sensitive in which people games are so not needed… However as an art community, I think we should support each other and enjoy this community without the games so we all can continue to grow:)

I DO get what you are saying and it has great validity, David. :) Too much of a good thing and it becomes very boring and tedious. In fact, I have just hidden some of my work from public view, but I can still view AND purchase my own artwork if I so choose. Many people may not be aware of this? Hide from view but you can still view your own work and purchase your own work. Worth keeping in mind!

I wondered why I had not seen much of your stuff recently David. Pity.
Yes, there are some work that is marginal in quality. However, I feel the policy of ‘play nice’ is partly to blame. Honest critiqued comments would be nice to receive. I have asked before on some of my work what would perhaps help to improve and don’t get much back in constructive criticism, don’t get me wrong, I love getting the good comments and without these I would not continue to put work up, as my confidence is such a fragile little thing and is inclined to go into hiding for days or weeks on end.
As for someone else’s reply about uploading 15 or more images at a time, I am guilty of this. I spend two to three days evenings browsing the site to comment on people’s work, moderate my groups almost daily and then treat myself to a couple of ‘upload’ sessions. To me it seems fair.
Cleaning out of my portfolio goes on quite regularly and so does cleaning out my watchlist of people who are not uploading for weeks on end. I am sure that again people have their own time frames for doing just that. I also use as a yardstick, photos in the ‘back’ end of my protfolio that have only received a few views and few comments as not being of a quality suitable and delete them from time to time – this is a useful way to maintain my site.
We all have our own methods.
Back to David’s orginal comment – if an image is not up to scratch, why comment on it? Or, if you feel strongly enough, write a polite BM and point out how that image could be improved.
There was a very lengthy discussion about what is ART several months ago. Most interesting comments on this too.
I used to belong to another photo group where the photos were rated 1-5 by the other artists – very impersonal and very clicky group – this group did not welcome new photographers at all. I stuck with this group, because there was a yearly joining fee, but almost gave up taking photos because of the negativity overall on the group.
RB has a real welcoming warmth to it and this should not be compromised.
I have no idea what the lofty ideals are being presented here, but would hate to think that any new member would be frightened off by reading some of the comments above.
Maybe we should all have in our groups the question ‘do you wish for your work to be critiqued’ and then hope that someone will know how to do just that – I don’t, I am still learning how to use my camera and light and photoshop, but am always glad of help, which I have had offered by some kind souls on RB by BMs.
Apart from all that, yes David, some photos a bit borderline on quality, but not just from new people, but also from those who have been on the for some time. I believe we should monitor our own quality, I don’t think I would like to see a vigilante group stampeding through people’s protfolios.

I am glad I stayed out of this one. BUt of course because things seem to be winding down I will stick my nose in here and be my usual invisible self. I agree so much with you David and probably more so than you. You would have to drag me kicking and screaming all the way to a gallery. I don’t want to look at family fotos nor do I like most of the art I see in exhibitions. My secret confession. But here on rb there are proportionately more exceptional artworks than not. WHew I feel much better and confident that no one will respond to me as per usual. Invisible me.

I agree with you 100% an the people who I see uploading to many of the same things are the people I respect can you imagine seeing the same thing over again and in some cases its for a few days Gee come on !
I have a HD full of wonderful images but don’t up load them because I was just tired of seeing the same suff from people who would be commenting on my new work and then expecting me to comment on work I have seen before over an over again.
So I just said Oh no I can’t and I don’t wanna not visit them but they are not giving good work!
They are getting lazy.
As for you I enjoy your work and seeing you visit so i don’t have a problem I dont have a real problem but what I want is for the few who do not think before they upload please please think about how this is gonna effect how others look at your work and you!
Thats what I think when I post its important to me to be respected an my work too!
Hope to see ya again my friend.
An thanks for coming to visit me.
Anyway I think you see my view!

I have worked so long and hard at my art and to think others just pass off trivia There are sites that would love to have them there. THey should go there and let serious people have their place. I mean it so much. I will never mainstream my art. no compromising for this crazy artist.

Thanks for your reponse David and the absolute clarification on your comments. I do understand what you are saying about repetitiveness and lowering of the standards of works. I like kalaryders idea of a polite BM.( I also understand a confidence going into hiding that is why I prefer a more gentle approach to things). As a beginner, I would appreciate some honest critiqueing in an appropriate manner.
David, I remain a great admirer and have great respect for your work.

some people may think there work is fantastic where as others might not, its all down to taste, I don’t mind artistic nudes but some nudes are just plain smut. If I feel someones sork isnt great i either dont comment or i bubblemail them. hey I even may have stuff in my portfolio that isnt an Ansell adams or a picasso but hey some painters where not appreciated until they where dead. I agree with upload your best but your best may not be what some others consider best. Herll one i posted as a bit of a fun sold so go figure. We dont want to get to a stage of having RB police.

also people have genres that they are comfortable with ie sunsets, macro flowers and good for them I see nothing wrong with that.

I think I’m ready to throw in the towel here – I’m thinking redbubble isn’t worth the effort anymore especially with all the pettiness going on. If you don’t like what someone posts – don’t comment or fave it. No one should be EXPECTING people to comment on their stuff and then get bent out of shape when they don’t. We can’t control what people post and if someone continually posts crap – remove them from your watchlist. I think my work is beautiful (most of the time anyway) but it may not appeal to everyone – oh well, such is life. I never hardly EVER get featured and I never seen a front page with one of my images but I keep trucking along even though a LOT of crap does get these honors. We can’t let this get us down or we’ll end up giving up all together.
AND flowers are my thing so no matter what flowers is MAINLY what you’ll see me uploading.

Well written David, I agree 100%

I read all the comments….............wow…............. It looks like a lot of people including me have the same feelings like you…............It’s very good that you brought this up, because it make people more aware of their actions her on RB.

Mmm hmm. . and did you read the part where I said I agreed with you; and mentioned the use of sites like Image Shack/journal entries as an alternative? Because, I really did agree with you; just saying .. maybe it’s not total agreement because it could very easily go too far the other way.

Also, I think we were talking about the same woman/artist. So, there, I am agreeing with you some more: I think she’s one of the best I’ve ever seen, a true artist of the highest quality.

Definitely a good thing, David!

Here’s to an increased awareness, more unity and support, more real critique and above all… more ART!!!

Hi David! Another artist just told me about this topic and he was laughing at me because I go without downloading for weeks at a time. Then sometimes I get so excited about the art I was working on during the weeks and will admit I am one of the people who do download 6 to 8 pieces in one day, but no more than once per week or every other week. I only download art that I want to sell and art I want to post on my RB gallery. But now after reading David’s well written piece and the comments of others, I will try and download no more than two per day. Hey! I said I will try because I know me and when I get excited I loose my mind. Smiles and Hugs!

Well its not about different pieces of art but about the same 10 shots of one piece like a sunset!
Humm too silly and then expect a comment!
Thats what this is about be aware of what your down loading an remember that your fans will stop looking when they notice your down loading just a bunch of repeats!
Anyway you know what I am talking about!
It can be too much to follow when you have a watch list as in my case 9 pages long.
An what I see from many here 9 pages is not that much some have 49 pages can u imagine that?
so be kind to your fan.
so how do I keep up with that many people down loading 10 photos a day ?
I think its too much and have a life out side of RB!LOL
Good to see ya my friend I was missing your comments and your kind smile and your work!!! Good to see ya again!

I wasn’t aware of any bickering within the group. I am fairly new to this site and I use it for what I believe it was intended for – that is – for people to view and comment on others’ works. I have had some very constructive comments on here, and that will help me in the future.

Some of the artwork on here doesn’t appeal to me – and that is fine. People have their own personal favourites and that is what makes us all individual.

I think that your origional comment about posting lots of pictures of the same thing was very valid. I can’t see the point in that. But as for the quality of the work – hum – lots of people are not at the level you are, and, as such need to be given a chance. We all start somewhere !

Well your right on that an quality of work has to do with the 10 postings of the same thing!
I can’t be the judge of what’s considered quality thats in the eye of the beholder right?
But I think we know a foto of your pet dog and a foto of your girlfriend lying in bed isn’t art?
1 Or is it?
Se I don’t think so and as I said there are sites that deal with family fotos this is suppose to be a Art site unles the need to make dollars becomes the biggest factor then I will understand.
But many of us want to keep this site different from Flicker and the other family site that are everywhere!
So thats my point lets try to keep the level of the site of the highest quality and not one of a hobby site.
Thats why I joined and I am quite sure others joined for the same reason too!
Good to see ya M