Update and Resume.about the Polyvore Affair.
So everyone knows a little more where we stand, and what is happening with “the polyvore affair”, I will post here the “communication” that has happened between “them” and I.
I personally am not done with this. I want Polyvore to respect ALL Artists’ copyrights.
Here is a collection of what was said and done, at the end of this writing, I will explain what remains.
It is not over yet.
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@Polyvore, I am really concerned about the fact that you have dissabeld your own tags, and thereof, you can no longer find new works that are being directed to your site.
I can proove very well that I can still upload pictures form redbubble to your site.
I just did it once again…
I chalenge you to take your own responsibility and find the works that I have uploaded… (as you would have to find lost works that are just still around on your site.) you are the one(s) in charge of your own network, it is for you to fix the mistakes that you have allowed to be produced here.
Perhaps you should also think about removing all works from other similar sites (but I think that it would be much easier on you to tell your members to upload their own products from their computer… If they have copyrights (like we do here) they must have it on their own computers.
When I started to be a photographer, I did it on my own time… I did not “steal” any equipment nor copyrighted materials from more experienced people.
How can we teach our children to be their own selves if we can’t even let them produce their own works?
What is the message you want to carry?
But let me tell you that if you can find my work, and you do remove it as soon as you do, that means that you can do the same with ALL of our works… this is YOUR responsibility.
It is disgraceful to see that you allow young people to upload “anything” to your site, and then wash your hands clean of it for letting the whole world use it.
I am very deceived. and I demand that you do no longer allow ANY directing from other copyrighted sites…
I am watching you, and there are a few people that are too… you just won’t always know who we are… nor which site we come from… deviantart, redbubble, photobucket… or any other sites… theft is theft, and it is not acceptable to profit (in any forms, and you sure do profit from getting original works to be played with to attract your clients.)
Please do not sing me a sweet song, for you haven’t even replied to half of us through our complaints…
I want to be kept updated here as to know what it is you are doing to ensure our rights.
Crokus Label, creator of the petition to which you didn’t really reply but to cut and paste your message from here to there.
We have a petition of 181 + yourself there, that states that WE want it all removed. It was your mistake in the first place. Fix it. Show the young ones on your site that one must take responsibilities for their own actions. It might help them trust adults, and learn to accept their responsibilities too.
Work on changing how your images are getting on your site(get them to upload from their own computers), because I promise to not give up the fight, and I am willing to go to any length to achieve the respect of our copyrights. Our copyrights MUST be respected anywhere. Redbubble memebers or not.
Copyrights are OUR rights as artists, anywhere we be.
Regards,
Crokus Label Photography, creator of the petition to which you should probably look at carefully, for we are many to ask you to remove our works, and not allow it to be posted on your site.
So I leave you to the cleaning up of your infringement mess, and I will be back in the morning to see if our petition was well understood.
(I too will be copying and pasting this elsewhere so everyone knows where all this is at now.)
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Polyvore, I am somehow deceived as how you have been avoiding me.
My account was deleted yesterday and reinstated today (I never have been abusive in my journey to copyright assertion. So I assume this is why you reinstated my account on your site.)
Now, I would have thought that you would have got something to reply at least in one of my messages/requests.
But even after sending you messages to your site, messages here and on the other thread here at RedBubble, and a link in your Bubblemail to let you know I had left you a message in both threads, you never respond to ANY of my writings… And that either in private.
I am still looking for explanations of how things will be handled from your site to stop this violation of copyrights.
Still waiting for you to give me a sign of life.
Crokus Label Photography.
Crokus: i just replied to your bubblemail.
As of last night, we have blocked imports from redbubble.com (because redbubble.com staff requested that we do so). You managed to import your image before our site software was updated with that change.
We have taken down your image and sets that you mentioned in your message. (Although, we did not understand why you uploaded something only to request to have it removed a few hours later).
As we have mentioned several times: we would be happy to comply with take down notices as long as they come from the person who owns the rights to the image and lists which URLs need to be removed. Please allow a reasonable amount of time for us to respond to your request (we usually respond in a few hours, but please allow 24 hours before you hit the panic button).
Also, please note that different people have different opinions about how their images should or should not be used online. We would be happy to service group take down requests as we did with RedBubble.com but please don’t send us request to take down all image from site X unless you are sure everyone affected shares your views. I hope this is not construed as lack of cooperation or respect on our part.
I hope I answered your questions.
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Polyvore,
I have uploaded these to see how your site was “working,” and what will happen with my images, so I precisely know what and how to make sure copyrighted images are not still being used.
As for standing up for all artist that have their rights to copyrights of their own material, I can not stay there and do nothing about it, for copyrights are made to be respected, and the very big majority of your images were taken on the net “randomly” by users that do not have them rights; Therefore, I will maintain my position at asking that everybody’s copyrights be respected. If you do not remove them you might have to deal with the consequences of your “inactions”…
Most people form other sites can’t ask you to have their works removed, for they are not even aware that they have been imported there. It would only be fair to refuse to respect their copyrights because you believe that they should all come and warn you to remove stuff that they do not even know is on your site.
Copyrights are made for EVERYONE to be respected, and I do not believe that when you say that everybody has a different opinion on the issue, you seem to forget that copyrights are the same for everyone, and that includes your site. By refusing today to take care of the real problem, you expose yourself to lawsuits in a near or far future.
I must say that you have made some great efforts to remove to remove redbubble’s member’s works, and I appreciate this.
I would really appreciate if you would let us know how you will make your best so your members really understand what are copyrights, what consequences there might be to infringe them, and what changes you will/might make in a near future so all artists/photographers works be protect as best as you can.
Thank you for this first reply, I appreciate that you finally found time to respond to part of my concerns.
Crokus Label
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What do you think?
I am not done… but let’s keep pealing the onion… ;)
(here are some key words so people can find this form a search engine: polyvore.com, polyvore, action, copyrights, rights, copyright, internet, infringement,Pasha Sadri, violation, fraud, theft, thief, mission, respect, honor, ceo, founder, community, innovator, thieves, scandal,blog, concern, concerned, Unite, unity, help, violator, law, trust, refuse, refusal, blame, )
Darren Stones
Crokus Label, I know that one image currently being used on Polyvore is in breach of copyright. The owner of that image was totally unaware of it being used.
Crokus Label
I know… and I have found many more… I went and look at your image…
This is wrong… They think that because people (that don’t even know their works are there) have not requested the works in question removed, they are not to remove it…
That some people think different about copyrights…
Is that what I should understand from what they are saying?
Or am I only having a bad dream?
Darren Stones
My understanding is they are going to be reactive instead of proactive.
This is the image in question I’m referring to.
http://www.polyvore.com/cgi/thing?id=99839
I have contacted its author and received a reply. He was unaware of it being used.
Crokus Label
it says that it is not found anymore, but I have seen it earlier today if it is the painting of a path in fall time…
Can you give me this man’s coordinates? I think I remember his name is Sam (from where the picture was taken.)
Linda Tenenbaum
My understanding is even Google images search will put any image that is tagged on their site unless someone complains. They do have a disclaimer when exhibiting the image that it may be copyright and not to be used unless owned.
I have started sending emails to some companies I recognize on Polyvore. So far several have thanked me for alerting them. These would be image galleries and not commercial companies such as LULU design. The manufacturers of the clothing and shoes etc. are probably happy their images are being hijacked for this site as it exposes their goods to the kids using the site to create sets.
PhotogeniquE IPA
we do need to remain alert.
PhotogeniquE IPA
mark ingram has a good idea
Crokus Label
Thanks guys… sorry I haven’t been around much at all today… I was working on an issue that I really take to heart.
I love to fight for what I believe in…
I won’t be here long either right now…
But I am still working on the issue at hand… :)
Much love to you all…
If anyone would like to gather up, please send me a message, and I will give you my e-mail address…
Together we can move mountains.
Dominic Melfi
Pasha Sadri uses this line “People have different opinions” often, however the Law has only one statement and it is the same for everyone, a work cannot be used without the originators permission.
As in the NAPSTER case when you provide indexes and listings and tools to participate in piracy you are not an innocent bystander. They had to change their model.
Other exchange sites have won in court because the courts found they didnt actively participate in the transaction, if they have a sterile hands off policy they have managed to pass the resposibilties to their users. Still not sure I’m comfortable with that.
But that seems to be the current legal status.
If polyvore maintains a clean approach having an exchange site is not illegal. I and everyone else is assuming the TARGET’S wont object because it is additional exposure they are not selling a picture of shoes they sell the shoes, whereas the picture is our product.
BUT THIS TOOL THEY HAVE is very intrusive and I dont see what they are going to do with that.
My current feeling is they need an OPT IN program where the Abrocombie and target et al give permission. And these are the only sites they use. Almost every web site displays a ALL RIGHTS RESERVED notice so I just cant imagine how you can build a business model that encourages copying from them.
AND since 1986 in USA and AU as well I believe, you dont have to display the copyright to maintain ownership.
The ethical stance since 1986 if it isnt specifically put into public domain you cant use it without permmission.
Dominic Melfi
I would point out that the USA gov can’t copyright so all of NASA etc is public domain. I guess the idea there is the public already paid for it. As well as public monuments etc.
galefraney
I just looked more closely at the Polyvore website and just discovered that Polyvore is actually adding stolen copyrighted images to their Image Library which are available from their own website’s search field, and inviting their members to use them within their compositions. Before I thought this was being done by their uneducated members and I thought that Polyvore was merely turning a blind eye. Turns out Polyvore is actually indexing copyrighted, stolen images in their own website’s search databaseTHIS IS COMPLETELY ILLEGAL !!!!!!!
Here is a link to one of my own images www.polyvore.com/lindas_rambling_other_things_fairy/thing… with two images below where their members have hacked it all to sh_t ! www.polyvore.com/st_valentines_fairy/set?id=5760487
And here’s another that they’ve stolen from me and is available from Polyvore’s own search function, by going to Create / choosing Items / and searching for "fantasy". www.polyvore.com/fantasy_art_group_500×390_fantasy_bookma…
and yet another www.polyvore.com/faries_image_freiengel_on_photobucket/th… and look how they mangled it to smitherines !
www.polyvore.com/faerie/set?id=5518112 It looks like complete and total garbage !!!! (and on Polyvore’s official blog blog.polyvore.com/2008/01/important-note-about-copyright…. they actually tell artists that we should be glad because they are HELPING us sell our art. They must have total delusions of grandeur because the gaudy, tacky, wretched, horrible hack jobs that they do to my art makes me want to vomit. It’s a complete violation!)
I had no idea until now that Polyvore is openly, consciously aiding and abetting their members to steal copyrighted images !!!! I was already pissed off enough just to know they were turning a blind eye and not correcting the problem. Seems like they are right in with the midst of this theft scam, which makes this a MUCH MORE SERIOUS ISSUE.
I suggest Polyvore Admin. begin to grasp of the gravity of this issue and I strongly suggest that Polyvore consult their lawyers because it is likely they will have an enormous court battle on their hands soon enough. The tiny amount of money that it would cost Polyvore to rectify this problem is just a water droplet compared to the money they may have to spend to battle what could become a precedence setting court case.
If Polyvore doubts my word, just do a google search of "Polyvore image theft" or "Polyvore stealing images" and you will get pages upon pages of search results, which is a clear indication that thousands of photographers and artists are thoroughly pissed off by this blatant disregard for Copyright Law.
galefraney
The last comment truncated the image link for some reason. Here is the link to my art agaon: http://www.polyvore.com/lindas_rambling_other_things_fairy/thing?id=4628780 and here’s the kind of crap they do to my art: http://www.polyvore.com/st_valentines_fairy/set?id=5760487
And here is another of my art that they’ve stolen:
http://www.polyvore.com/fantasy_art_group_500×390_fantasy_bookmarks/thing?id=4809422
and here is yet another:
http://www.polyvore.com/faries_image_freiengel_on_photobucket/thing?id=4773661
and here is the mangled mess they did with it:
http://www.polyvore.com/faerie/set?id=5518112
I wrote to Polyvore early this week to ask them to remove several of my stolen images. Now it is the end of the week and my images are back up again. I’ve written to them on numerous occasions to have them take down my stolen images.
I wrote to them several days ago to ask them what there policy is when their members violate Copyright Law, and what do they do with repeat offenders, is their membership revoked? They have NOT ANSWERED my email. I am still waiting for their reply.
Gale Franey
website: www.thegraphicgroove.com
digital art blog: www.galefraney.wordpress.com
galefraney
There is a petition to shut down Polyvore for their repeated Copyright Violations. Here is the link. http://www.gopetition.com/online/24378.html
Already 933 people have signed.
People on many online forums have begun to invoice Polyvore for each use of their image. ie, the 7 uses of my images that I currently found on their website, billed at US$500 for single license use will be a total invoice billing to them of $3500. You can email your invoices to copyright@polyvore.com
I encourage everyone to do so, otherwise the only other option is to continually beg them to take our images down, I did so earlier this week, but as soon as they removed them 7 more of my images sprung up again.
Even on Polyvore’s own offical blog on Copyright, they are scoffing us and taking pot shots at us. Yesterday they said they were “parodying” us. Here is the link to Polyvore’s Copyright Blog
http://blog.polyvore.com/2008/01/important-note-about-copyright.html
Not one single Polyvore staff person steps in to interject if one of their members mistakenly says they are allowed to use our copyrighted images in whatever way they want.
Copyright Law is crystal clear. Nations adhere to the Berne Copyright Convention, which states Convention which states that any art or image created privately and originally after April 1, 1989 is copyrighted and protected whether it has a notice or not. By default the work is copyrighted and may not be copied or used without permission.