Topic: 2nd opinion / Island

blasted Great Lake…...

Topic: 2nd opinion / Island

Dana, it is obvious there are ten too many water molicules in the photo..

Topic: 2nd opinion / Island

Hmmm.
Ok, I see a problem then, although – one person’s (or relatively few out of the 1120 members) is not exactly a true representation.

I would hope that despite the line being a little blurry, the gallery shows a distinct flavour that would evidence what we’re about. Perhaps I should poll the group. Though for that matter, my group mail a few weeks ago suggesting that perhaps I should retire as Host and leave it to someone else, prompted many many mails from persons I have never heard of, requesting I stayed on and that they were happy with the gallery.

Dana, you mention three types of groups on RB that you identify. I kinda agree – and the groups I host all seem to fit in either the middle, or the very selective range. Perhaps this is my personal idea of how I want to run my groups. I am here for the art, and not the social aspect – though I do have many RB friends. As such, I am more inclined in the selection process to choose artworks based on merit/criteria, rather than artist. I understand that this philosophy can alienate persons wanting to be more social, and experience a more accessible, welcoming group.

There are literally hundreds (if not thousands) of RB groups – covering every possible topic and genre. For me, there is no ‘wrong’ or ‘right’ in how groups are managed, providing there is no malicious and hurtful actions by either members or hosts. I repeat – I see (and manage) RB groups as a gallery, and take the role of curator. I would like to think that I not only select works just as a curator would, but also provide at least as much recourse and discussion on works as a curator would – not to mention critique.

RB can be seen as a social avenue, a marketing resource, and/or both. I have been more interested in the marketing side, and the groups I host are galleries that allow potential buyers to browse, confidently knowing that the standard is very high, and the philosophy of the group is kept to. Of course, I will never please everyone – and the vocal minority is always the loudest.

I am not trying to be a hard-ass – but I will continue keeping to what I believe is right, and continue listening and discussing the topic as long as members are open-minded, not bloody-minded.

Topic: 2nd opinion / Island

if this was the question: have a look at your works accepted, and see if you can come any closer to understanding my selection process….

i thought i answered that by saying: as a result, i dont know that i could make a guess as to what you would think hit that mark of yours or not

Topic: 2nd opinion / Island

Thanks for that, Dana.
You did not answer my question/suggestion above, though.

Topic: 2nd opinion / Island

There is an element of minimalism captured, but not enough, for me, to see it as a good example of what the group is about. It is not ‘inspiring’ in it’s simplicity, nor is it showing us something that is taken away from it’s environment and displaying it in a minimalist way.

i think after reading your explanation it sounds like you aren’t just looking for minimal images as the only qualifier to being accepted. it has to be a certain degree of minimal. as a result, i dont know that i could make a guess as to what you would think hit that mark of yours or not, and this is likely why others in the group, who have submitted minimal images but were rejected maybe because they were not the greatest rather than not being at all minimal, were confused as well. i think most people can accept that as long as they know about it, but it does not appear they know about it, then get frustrated/mad and leave. and i would not have known either if i had not been given a response that was sepcific to my image. so this is good to know, but unfortunately, so very subjective as you have in effect created a minimalism scale of sorts that i find i would be unable to predict your response. and a forum where 2 outside opinions will allow a work into the group doesn’t seem to make sense if others are only judging ‘minimal or not’ and you have a more graduated scale.

as an aside, and don’t feel the need to reply to this part as this is probably not the best place to post it in the first place – in my opinion, it is common on RB to have 3 different types of groups: those which allow anything in even if it really doesn’t fit the topic, those that let in the best of the best with very high standards, and those somewhere in the middle. i have always preferred a group somewhere in the middle where a person who is not the best of the best can be encouraged and inspired to do better. i find those that those groups who are more strict like this one, may have a beautiful gallery, but it can’t always be enjoyed by members who are too discouraged and not given the opportunity to learn and aim for more. nothing wrong with having a great gallery – it can give the host instant satisfaction, but go in knowing that you will end up with the reactions you may have already received which could result in not much enjoyment from the members or host. i have been a teacher of adult students for a very long time and this is just the philosophy i subscribe to, and as a result, it determines the type of RB group i personally find welcoming.

Topic: 2nd opinion / Island

Ok, I just culled the gallery again, removing around 15 works.

While doing so, I noticed that you have 4 or 5 pieces in, Dana. I looked at them especially critically, yet find them suited to the group. Perhaps you could do the same – have a look at your works accepted, and see if you can come any closer to understanding my selection process.

Topic: 2nd opinion / Island

Based on my research before beginning hosting this group, as well as my interpretation of the prolific litrature on the subject, here is how I select works for the gallery:

Artworks -

I look for a subject that is pure, unadulterated, and without conflicting/distracting/contrasting visual elements.

Sub-Visual (for want of a better term) -

A visual piece, that ‘speaks’ more than is ‘seen’. Dana, your ‘Woman’ shot is a good example of this. In these cases, I look for a clear message, accompanied by a simple visual.

Written works -

Once again, a minimum of words and flowery adjectives, to give the reader something to ponder, minus everything other than a message. Single words are rarely minimalist (to me).

Some people think that taking a photo of a flower and blackening out around it constitutes minimalism. I do not. I find that process distracting. I also find textured, vignetting, and/or other forms of pseudo-focus distracting and not true to the concept of minimalism. I like the work to speak for itself. This is not to say, in the least, that post-processed imagery is not acceptable, because it certainly is. But the artwork needs to be minimalist in it’s entirety.

With the photo you display above, Dana, I look at it and think – poor lonely bird. There is an element of minimalism captured, but not enough, for me, to see it as a good example of what the group is about. It is not ‘inspiring’ in it’s simplicity, nor is it showing us something that is taken away from it’s environment and displaying it in a minimalist way. I see minimalism as almost zen-like in it’s purity.

I will at some stage, have another go at culling the gallery. The last time I did it, a few weeks ago, I removed nearly half the works. This time, it will not be so severe.

Topic: 2nd opinion / Island

i understand and do not think you should engage in those types of “bated” debates. just know that in this thread, i am asking because i really do want an honest, educational answer. you may recall a long time ago we talked about the difference between minimal and abstract and that cleared a very big issue up for me, and as a result, not one abstract from me in 8 months. so when i ask for your interpretation here, it is so i can understand it, whatever it is, because even if i dont agree with it, at least i will understand it and know before attempting to submit something i know you won’t accept. and i would wager that many others who ask are asking for the same reason. isn’t that the ultimate win-win?

Topic: 2nd opinion / Island

Dana, I do not think that you have been rude at all, and have not said so.
Others have, and since there are usually people chiming in, I imagine they read these threads.

I am making it clear – I see myself as the current curator of this gallery.
I am happy and willing to explain my reasoning for works rejected or accepted.
I am more than happy to be convinced that I have made an error.
I will not accept bad behavior or rudeness.

There is a point in particular situations when one must abide by the umpire’s decision, regardless of whether one agrees or not. There is always room to discuss an issue. But I do not get paid for this, and do not need nor want to enter into endless debates with pissed off people.

And this is not specifically directed at yourself, Dana.

Topic: 2nd opinion / Island

thank you. i have read that link many times.

i think you may have come into this with the wrong view. i only asked “Wondering why one would not consider this minimal?” i don’t believe there is any rudeness or bullying anywhere in that. i was trying to get an honest answer. i have also read the posts initiated by other members and they have also started with very innocent questions. others may jump on the bandwagon and be mad, but the initial poster is still left without an answer

Topic: 2nd opinion / Island

Does this help at all?

Regarding answering queries.
When people ask, politely, and with an open mind, why their work has not been accepted, I respond. When people are more interested in a fight, pointing figures, and proving someone wrong – I am less likely to respond.

Would you also like to know why this is so? Just in case, let me tell you.
I do not have the time, nor the interest in exhaustively debating somewhat arbitrary semantics and merits of art with irate people. I am more than happy to explain myself, give my views and rationale, and also be convinced that I have made a mistake. Rudeness and bullying, however, I do not tolerate very well.

Topic: 2nd opinion / Island

i know, mark. i am just asking so i can learn. I feel it is desolate but not minimalist does not exactly leave with me with any greater understanding of your interpretation of minimalism, and neither does the above. since getting a substantial explanation seems to be an issue i will stop asking. it is unfortunate, though, since it appears there are many in the group who are posting in this forum and instead of being able to have a conversation about art they are just ignored. it is not like you and that is sad for everyone

(just an aside – i won’t even ask why there are images in the gallery that are “less minimalist” is you just culled everything; i used those images as examples as i thought you were telling us that the images in the gallery were the ones that were consistent with whatever your interpretation is. you can see how this could be confusing for people)

Topic: 2nd opinion / Island

They are not mutually exclusive – I do not say that they are.
An image can be one or the other only, though.

Your examples:
Nicole’s work – I feel it is even less minimalist than yours.
Harris’ – although not strictly minimalist, it does have a certain purity about it which would cause me to consider it as acceptable.

Dana – as you may know by now – this group is actively moderated by myself only. Therefore it follows that since I am the only person making selections, much like the curator of a gallery, the works accepted or rejected would be based on my own interpretation of our group guidelines.

Topic: 2nd opinion / Island

can you explain why it can’t be both? desolate isn’t really a genre of art, whereas minimalism has one clear focus without distraction of other objects, composition, rules, etc. ....which is what i, and apparently more than 2 others, thought this displayed

aren’t these also desolate?
http://www.redbubble.com/people/belloui/art/1787547-2-on-top-of-the-world
http://www.redbubble.com/people/nekophoto67/art/1484907-4-heavy-traffic

Topic: 2nd opinion / Island

Dana – I feel it is desolate but not minimalist.

Topic: 2nd opinion / Island

it would be great if a host could respond to these (not just mine), as this is the forum for getting second opinions from members and deciding on works that should/should not be in the group…

Topic: 2nd opinion / Island

I’ve been here just a few days, but I’ve tried to figure this club out…and haven’t a clue.

Topic: 2nd opinion / Island

Honestly, I have decided not to complain anymore and wonder why my submissions were not accepted…. I have decided to simply leave the group and go where my work is appreciated. Maybe they are right, maybe they are wrong, who knows???? but I am not going to stay here and wonder… I will simply move on.
Anyway I will admit that their selection is still very beautiful !!! all the best to the on going members.

Topic: 2nd opinion / Island

I know what you mean.

http://www.redbubble.com/people/satterflow/art/1822908-2-minimal

this picture got the same answer.

Topic: 2nd opinion / Island

Wondering why one would not consider this minimal?

Topic: 2nd opinion / Help me understand...

Thanks George,
I can barely see it now, I’m surprised how others saw it and I couldn’t. For me this image would probably work much better on a larger scale than only viewing it on a small screen. Agree with all … it’s a nice and simple shot though.

Irena

Topic: 2nd opinion / Help me understand...

Many thanks Nathalie

Topic: 2nd opinion / Help me understand...

Minimalist too me too George! Dunno why it was rejected!!

Topic: 2nd opinion / Help me understand...

Thanks Ursula – That’s 2 for and 1 against so far… Any more thoughts?