Solo Exhibition

Artist solo exhibitions, juried invitational exhibitions, and workshops

Announcing August workshop for SoJie 13, Solo's 13th Juried Invitational Exhibition (locked)

ArtPearl ArtPearl 565 posts

I dont post much photography, and certainly cant be considered ‘expert’, but I thought along similar lines to John P.
If your object cant be put in front of the computer screen…take regular photo(s) and print (glue to card board if it needs to be a bit stiffer) arrange on your table or wherever and take your ‘final’ shot.
As John said it does get a bit hairy where it stops being photography, but this included no photoshoping at all…
In art as in morality one needs to know where to draw the line:)

Robin King Robin King 1068 posts

Wow! WOW!!!!!!
You guys are onto something brilliant!!!

@ Rhoufi
Thank you, Rhoufi, for the explanation and info. I can’t wait to see how you bring this to us!!!!

@ John Poon
Whoa…good questions………and that’s a gorgeous, creative image!

Rene Fuller Rene Fuller 791 posts

whoops… I was thinking about maybe using a panorama since there are no lenses for rent in Luxembourg. But from what I gather panoramas are not allowed under the definitions?

@ John P. i am one of those group hosts, never ran across your images though:) But as far as I am concerned, if the photographer puts in the description how the photograph was taken, its in. Like your example would be a sure thing, it’s a great photo with a lot of imagination.

Andrew (ark photograhy art) Andrew (ark ph... 81 posts

all amazing works.

Rhoufi Rhoufi 297 posts

@John Poon & @Rene & @ArtPearl

Your photo is a great example of the imaginative use of what is at hand and I’m sure we will need similar imagination to get through this translation. But in the case of SoJie 13, I think we do need to keep in mind the “spirit” of the Workshop. There is a need to draw a very clear line between the three different formats that are being showcased: Digital Art; Photographic Art; & Traditional Art. If the photographers use all the powerful tools of Photoshop then they essentially are being digital artists, and might as well do their translation in the Digital Art Format. That option is available to them if they want to take it.

So there needs to be a reason to want to do the translation in Photographic Art, and that would be to showcase the artistic form of photography, what can be achieved using the camera as the chosen tool of expression. In my photography, I normally don’t do much post processing aside from cropping, and white balance, contrast & brightness adjustments. I have only once blended two images together for the fun of it and I declared that was what I did (although it was obvious). This is my choice alone, because I believe strongly that people still “believe” photographs – they still accept the inherent truth in them. So that’s why I love street photography and rarely do studio or staged photography. In SoJie 13 however, I will be trying to do something in between. For instance, I need the facade of a bombed out building for part of my photograph, and there are no such buildings in Melbourne (thankfully). I could take a photograph of a photograph of a bombed out building, but really I don’t think that would be in the spirit of the Workshop; so I need to find a derelict building in the real world that I can make “look” like it is bombed out.

If I was doing the Digital Art Translation, it would be a snap, but then I would not be doing a Photographic Art Translation. Outside SoJie 13 Workshop all techniques are possible, and if I use them I would always feel the need to disclose them to the viewer. But for this workshop I feel that we have to stay clear of the line and use our camera skills more than our digital manipulation skills to perform the work. We can’t avoid Photoshop because we work with digital cameras, but we can strive to show what is possible.

Personally I think the photographers already have the skills, but because Photoshop has been around for so long and is so effective at hiding all our mistakes, they have become used to it and never think beyond it. The SoJie 13 Workshop is our chance to avoid it and enjoy the raw photographic experience.

Thanks for your thoughts everyone. I told Frannie it would generate healthy discussion, as it should.

That said when I look at all the hurdles I have to overcome with my translation, I sure wish I could just use Photoshop to overcome them.

John Poon John Poon 625 posts

@ Rhoufi
I am with you. I am not challenging the guide lines set forth for Sojie 13, for this is the challenge – using traditional photography techniques. Why I’ve stated in my WIP I am going try and do my translation with one photo with no added textures and layers. Even if I get kicked into the hall of shame, I would have enjoyed the creative thinking and learned something :)

Nothing personal, but I don’t want your company there. I am looking forward to see how you pull this off. I want details details and details.

@ Rene
Normally when I join a group and see too many rules I don’t join, or I will end up leaving the group sooner or later, I do realize there are time and places when you would want straight from the camera photography, such as journalistic documentary type groups. I have no problems with that.

However, when a group host tries to tell his members what photography should be, for no other reason than it’s his own view point. They want to see what the camera sees or something to that effect. Although I don’t always post-process my images, I just don’t buy into that kind of philosophy. Art is art no matter what medium, equipment or technique one uses.

If I be bold enough to consider myself as an artist some day, I would think of myself as an artist, NOT a camera operator. Sheesh, I mean, I don’t like what my cheap little camera sees most of the time and what the camera sees rarely represent my perception. For the most part, I shoot with post processing in mind; I see how a scene looks if I do it in HDR or any other techniques at my disposal. The camera is only a tool, and only a part of a tool set.

I don’t like to list my exif data, because there is nothing you can learn from that. Yea I shot that picture at f3.5 but I would have shot at f1.2 if my lens is that fast. I shot at 35mm but I would have done it with a 18mm lens if I had it, etc., etc. Since I am not shooting documentary, I also don’t like to disclose how and if the image is processed. Art is personal but it is also interactive when it is shown. Why break the magic and tell the viewer it is a composite when the viewer believes he is seeing the wonder of nature?

I don’t want to show the world what my camera sees, I want to show the world what I see!

Rene, this is not directed at you personally, just an open discussion. I am sorry I am getting long winded at this, but I am somewhat passionate about the topic. For the longest time in the early days of photography, it was not accepted as an art form but a documentary medium. We have fought long and hard and we have come a long way from those dark ages.

Beside, there’s more than a little hypocrisy with that old school thinking.

If you want to see what the camera sees, then why is any adjustment (such as exposure compensation, color correction) outside the camera allowed at all?

Why is black and white photography accepted and held in such high regards? Since when do we or the camera see the world in black and white or sepia tone unless you are color blinded?

Why is Sepia Tone accepted as normal practice when it’s not if I use the same technique but replace brown with hot pink?

How are we going to define “what the camera sees” now, and in the future? Have you seen the image enhancement features some of these cameras come with these days? I wouldn’t be surprised to see Photoshop built-in in the not too distant future. What then?

And let’s not forget Ansel Adams bragged about how much time he spent in the darkroom, aka, photoshop before computers. :)

John Poon John Poon 625 posts

Rene, I don’t see why panoramas should not be allowed. Isn’t photo stitching built in most digital camera anyway?

Rene Fuller Rene Fuller 791 posts

I don’t have photo stitching in mine, it’s a very non-image enhancement sort of camera:) (Sony Alpha a900, a so called pro DSLR) so I would have to use photoshop. But yes, photo stitching is part of most cameras nowadays (mine is several years old)

@John You are right, nothing goes without Photoshop anymore, and I agree time advances and the methods at are disposal should be used (I just don’t know how to most of the time:). Two of my groups are dedicated to the “old shool”, so by joining them it is understood that that is the norm. Anything possible in the days of darkrooms is accepted, not only as is from the camera. As-is is ridiculous anyway, as the DSLRs does a lot of processing on their own already. And yes, what you see is the art, my camera right now sees a white ceiling, not much of an art or even documentary picture:)
The other two are a “free for all” as long as the basic premise of the group is respected. Take People at work it is about people at work, otherwise it’s open to all forms of art

F.A. Moore F.A. Moore 37046 posts

Just remember, as I mentioned in the beginning, for me, if it looks digital to me, the category will be digital for a Sojie.

If it looks like a photograph with atmospheric textures, it will most often be in Photographic Art. This is because we only
have three categories in SoJie. Having more categories requires more of everything, and we don’t have the resources for it.
So there is gray area.

But once something starts looking like a digital manipulation, or has painterly effects applied, like watercolor, plastic, stuff like that,
hey it’s common sense that you’re working in digital. Most of those filters in photoshop cannot be easily created in the dark room;
and are meant to replicate painting techniques rather than photographic lab techniques.

If it replicates a photographic lab technique like dodging, burning (vignetting), that’s different; it’s just a digital attempt to
replicate the dark room.

In addition, for purposes of the current 3 categories, I don’t mind textures. If the textures are piled so high that the
photograph becomes secondary to the total of textures, then again, we’re in a gray area, and I might say it’s digital art.
Try to avoid stepping into those areas.

If you’re going to push the envelope, push it on the photographic side, rather than the digital manipulation side, I’d recommend.

Again, if it looks digital then it probably IS DIGITAL.
Meaning that if there is enough manipulation, applied filters that mimic brush effects, etc, to make it look like
Digital Art and not principally a photograph, then it WILL BE considered Digital Art.

If I see a WIP going digital, I’ll notify you privately, so that you can make a decision before heading to the next stage.
The decision would be a) backtrack a bit and head a different direction with the work, or b) if it’s still open for digital
translation, meaning no prior agreement has been made for it, ask the artist for a change in genre on the agreement,
and let me know. Everything can be easily edited in the workshop and your agreements can be modified as to genre.

So don’t get stuck on this ONE PHOTO thing. There are plenty of opportunities to set up models – rather plastic or
real – within or against backdrops – whether street or staged (not digitally staged!) – to make it a photo, rather than
forcing DIGITAL work into the Photographic category.

Who says you have to stick with the way you usually photograph? Don’t hold yourself back in that way. Stretch.

Panos (that one normally thinks of as a pano) are photographic, too, in that stitching is just a means of capturing a
broader perspective of the image, without distortion.

Rene Fuller Rene Fuller 791 posts

Thx for the clarifications @Frannie:)!

F.A. Moore F.A. Moore 37046 posts

Sure thing Rene.

You Photographers are all welcome to message me with an image of a direction you’re going in, if you have
a question about whether I might consider it enough to push it into the Digital category.

I’m very open to that discussion with you, privately, please.

The goal is your journey through this creative process, which I believe to be the most challenging for photographers.
But that’s why I’m so excited about your work, and thrilled about your ideas and discussions.

@Photographers, By the way, please don’t hesitate to post any of your test shots, especially one that you’re excited
about, as one of your WIPs. You could do the second WIP during a post processing stage, for example. That would
complete your 2 WIPs requirement.

John Poon John Poon 625 posts

I think most of the photogs here are comfortable if not proficient with editing software to do digital translations. I can’t speak for all who choose to do photographic translations, but for me, this is stretching, thinking outside the box. This is the challenge, to create A photo interpretation of a complex digital art.

But good to know that if all else fails there maybe other options :)

F.A. Moore F.A. Moore 37046 posts

Yes, definitely don’t mind someone switching genres if the genre is still open for that work, of course.
But also an interim discussion, before one goes over the brink of digital no return can be helpful, as
some things might come up when talking it out, how to continue w/ the Photographic interpretation,
without switching.

Rhoufi Rhoufi 297 posts

@Rene & @John Poon
I would have thought that stitching photos together in Photoshop would be acceptable to achieve a panorama; and my reading of Frannie’s words above indicates she is to. This is also a traditional photographic technique.

As far as Photoshop is concerned, Frannie’s approach is perfectly reasonable. We all instinctively know what overworking composite images in Photoshop is – it’s digital art. And what we are trying to do with the Photographic Translation is not that. I don’t own Photoshop and I don’t really want to, because it’s not the way I like to make my art. I use Lightroom to process all my photographs and that’s got all I need to present my photographs the way I see the world. I prefer to capture the meaning of the real world and print the photo with minimal digital manipulation. I don’t subscribe to the “straight from the camera” thing at all (no cropping, or adjustments of any kind). This seems quite odd to me, because it fails to present the photograph in the best possible way. But I don’t do composites or cloning of major elements to achieve perfection. And I don’t do studio and set-up photography much either – I have never felt the desire to. That’s because it’s not my way of capturing the beauty and meaning in the real world, as truthfully as possible – this is important to me. I get no satisfaction from taking it further; it’s the search, the capture and the presentation that is important to me. At the same time I respect anyone who wants to do the full digital thing – they are following their artistic yearnings and that’s what they should do. In fact, that is all that is really important – that they strive to express themselves is the way that satisfies them .

The Photographic Translation in SoJie 13 is way beyond what I would normally consider doing, but I am happy to explore it because it will stretch my photographic skills and teach me heaps. And I am very happy to work with limited digital techniques. It is the “design” of the capture that fascinates me – the deliberate “foreseeing” of the image rather than the opportunistic approach of street photography.

Rene Fuller Rene Fuller 791 posts

@Rhoufi & John P. I agree with everything. As-is is not a viable option for artistic expression, and as far as I’m concerned, it’s not supposed to be. A photographer labeling a photo As-is is an expression of proudness (bragging:) on the part of the photographer as in; “look what I did!” Compare it to “Look mummy, no hands”. A nice As-is photo might happen once every 100 – 1000 photos and usually with a huge serving of luck.

Robin King Robin King 1068 posts

Just read all of the posts here…what a wonderful discussion!

WOW!!!
@ EVERYONE

:: applause::

Linda Bianic Linda Bianic 3196 posts

All good stuff here

@ John,that bottle of Patron is superb! I have tried a few similar shots,, item in front of the screen,,,,, still working on one I am happy with,,,, btw,, i have seen many posted here stating thats how they do swirly colored water shots, in front of a white screen,,,,,, so,, yeah, its straight from the camera….

Sandro Vivolo Sandro Vivolo 107 posts

Hey what happening to this topic? not one it is posting anymoore?

Qnita Qnita 5541 posts

citywind… Everybody moved THIS WAY

Rhoufi Rhoufi 297 posts

Qnita, you’re on the ball!!
our shepherdess :-)))

Qnita Qnita 5541 posts

Lol Rhoufi…